banner18 wrote:I think the point has to be made here, when I say quicker, I'm not meaning early finishing. I'm meaning that smaller looping can be done in time whilst larger looping with trollies cannot as has been made clear by many on here. As long as the weight is low it is quite acceptable to carry the mail. Also, there are many places where the trolly cannot be used due to terrain and paving issues and the trollies still won't take many oversized items so multiple calling is still necessary.
I don't see the problem with not using the trollies as long as you aren't carrying more than 10kg, not running etc and also can get the job done on time?
I have heard managers going out and telling people off who weren't using trollies. That's fine, the first time that happens to me, half a round will be getting returned to the delivery office.
They haven't made any provision for trollies to be used so anybody who has to use them is going over or cutting off.
I thought it was 8Kg
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Himaggen wrote:Unless the planner has designed your delivery as mini loops and stipulated that it isn't designed for LWT use, the LWT is mandatory. You can do whatever you want with it and design it yourself in loops of twenty delivery points but the mandatory equipment is still mandatory. It is safer not to carry a bundle of mail destined for other addresses up to someone else's door. That problem has been catered for with the LWT, you leave it in there and remove it when it is required!
Failure to use the equipment supplied as mandatory for health and safety is gross misconduct and as such can be dealt with in immediate dismissal. A Manager who knowingly allows breaches of health and safety can also be given the same punishment.
Safer to carry specials and tracked in the LWT left at the end of every drive? I agree that if you have larger loops and hump the mail around in bags then you are a fool, but my loops are small, one bundle in hand, one in the bag + packets.
padraig1965 wrote:It is 8kg on a loop and 5kg if it is flats etc.Anything over is a LWT.
So it is justified to use smaller loops and avoid using the LWT?
No.
Only if it's been planned that way due to issues with terrian or flats.
Otherwise the use of the designated delivery equipment is....mandatory.
But how do you know that? All I know is that the loops are small enough such that there is either 1 or 2 bundles in each of our bags and that to me is within the guidelines to carry.
Our walks generally have 8 loops each, and we share two walks between two posties. So a total of 16 loops over the theoretical 4.25 hour delivery span.
Out of these 16 loops only probably less than 5 on average (some walks maybe only one or two) are designated for trolley use. So the result is that the trolleys are pretty pointless, we still spend most of our time carrying a bag on our shoulders.
At what point does the 3.5 hours maximum span without trolleys become in excess of 4 hours with trolleys? Can it become 4.25 hours if just one or two loops are designated for trolleys?
padraig1965 wrote:It is 8kg on a loop and 5kg if it is flats etc.Anything over is a LWT.
So it is justified to use smaller loops and avoid using the LWT?
No.
Only if it's been planned that way due to issues with terrian or flats.
Otherwise the use of the designated delivery equipment is....mandatory.
But how do you know that? All I know is that the loops are small enough such that there is either 1 or 2 bundles in each of our bags and that to me is within the guidelines to carry.
Its not just down to the weight of the bags, or even the mandatory issue (although that is the clincher) - you can only use the 8kg bags on a shared delivery that is planned at under 3.5 hours - is yours.
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padraig1965 wrote:It is 8kg on a loop and 5kg if it is flats etc.Anything over is a LWT.
So it is justified to use smaller loops and avoid using the LWT?
No.
Only if it's been planned that way due to issues with terrian or flats.
Otherwise the use of the designated delivery equipment is....mandatory.
But how do you know that?
Because it says so on page 23 of the BT2010 agreement.
Once assigned the use of equipment specified for the route will be mandatory.
And it says so in phase 5 of the 6 phase revision process.
All training requirements should also be in place prior to the revision going “live” and that everyone is aware that all equipment aligned to the delivery must be used.
A few of my loops have 1 bundle with maybe 1 packet? Do I have to just take the empty LWT with me?
A few loops have 2 bundles so I would have to take the LWT with on side overloaded and basically nothing in it.
Fair enough, now and again there have been 3-4 bundles and packets on a loop and I have used the LWT.
Our walks are planned at 4.5 hours including traveling time, pouching off etc..
Given the (generally) reduced weight of pouches we carry since P&L came in, I think there's probably an argument to say that LWTs cause more H&S issues than they solve. Don't get me wrong, LWTs are a godsend when really required i.e when you're loaded down with D2Ds, flats and packets for a particular loop, however, using them even when you've got one bundle in your hand and only one in the pouch (as we've been told you have to) is crazy. I've had more trips, scrapes etc using a trolley than I've ever had prior to their introduction. Also, once you've got halfway round your loop, inevitably you're left dragging/pushing round a piece of equipment that is no longer serving any purpose whatsoever. It's a bloody hindrance. On top of that the rapidly emptying pouches get lighter (obviously) and when you go over a bump, have a habit of jumping off the bloody thing. Happened to me in the middle of a road once. Nice. They're useful when required but mandatory usage? Nah. I can't understand it to be honest because if we all used them for every loop, claims for O/T and people cutting off would go through the roof. Why would RM want that? It's all about being seen to be doing the right thing. RM is good at talking-the-talk but not walking-the-walk (no pun intended). Management know hardly anybody uses them but pretend they don't because they know it's in their best interest, in terms of both saving on O/T claims and future back injuries that can be waved away as the postie's own stupid fault. The irony of course is that prolonged use of trolleys will reveal itself to be a cause of all sorts of repetitive strain injuries anyway. There's no doubt about that. You can feel it in your wrist and shoulder after one loop.
Bit of a rant but in short, trolleys are useful but only when really needed.
S6 Stroller wrote:Given the (generally) reduced weight of pouches we carry since P&L came in, I think there's probably an argument to say that LWTs cause more H&S issues than they solve. Don't get me wrong, LWTs are a godsend when really required i.e when you're loaded down with D2Ds, flats and packets for a particular loop, however, using them even when you've got one bundle in your hand and only one in the pouch (as we've been told you have to) is crazy. I've had more trips, scrapes etc using a trolley than I've ever had prior to their introduction. Also, once you've got halfway round your loop, inevitably you're left dragging/pushing round a piece of equipment that is no longer serving any purpose whatsoever. It's a bloody hindrance. On top of that the rapidly emptying pouches get lighter (obviously) and when you go over a bump, have a habit of jumping off the bloody thing. Happened to me in the middle of a road once. Nice. They're useful when required but mandatory usage? Nah. I can't understand it to be honest because if we all used them for every loop, claims for O/T and people cutting off would go through the roof. Why would RM want that? It's all about being seen to be doing the right thing. RM is good at talking-the-talk but not walking-the-walk (no pun intended). Management know hardly anybody uses them but pretend they don't because they know it's in their best interest, in terms of both saving on O/T claims and future back injuries that can be waved away as the postie's own stupid fault. The irony of course is that prolonged use of trolleys will reveal itself to be a cause of all sorts of repetitive strain injuries anyway. There's no doubt about that. You can feel it in your wrist and shoulder after one loop.
Bit of a rant but in short, trolleys are useful but only when really needed.
Exactly. Surely guidelines can have common sense applied to them.
If you only have one or two bundles it's either tuesday or your loops are too small.
How many loops would that be at a bundle or two a time.
My walk has 6 loops of 40mins each.
That's about 3-4 bundles plus packets and i'm not carrying that...especially for four hours.
If i end up with a long term injury using a trolley i'm laughing and limping all the way to the bank,if you end up with a long term injury or have an accident while using a bag they will probably try to sack you.
banner18 wrote:Exactly. Surely guidelines can have common sense applied to them.
They are not guidelines...they are rules.
Follow them or don't,it's your choice but by not following them you are carving up the job in exactly the same way as someone who comes in early and skips their meal break,you are making it easier to cut jobs in the long term and you are putting your own job at immediate risk.
fishtank wrote:If you only have one or two bundles it's either tuesday or your loops are too small.
How many loops would that be at a bundle or two a time.
My walk has 6 loops of 40mins each.
That's about 3-4 bundles plus packets and i'm not carrying that...especially for four hours.
If i end up with a long term injury using a trolley i'm laughing and limping all the way to the bank,if you end up with a long term injury or have an accident while using a bag they will probably try to sack you.
The walk I've been doing has about 11 loops. We also pass the van in between loops and so can split them down even further.
If I used the LWT it would be virtually empty most of the time. Remember, different areas have different terrains and housing layouts. Maybe yours is such that using the LWT is necessary. mine is a very compact village.
Last edited by banner18 on 28 Sep 2012, 19:50, edited 1 time in total.
