7AM starts why??

[SpacePhoenix]

05:45 starts for DOs will never happen again as you'd not have any work in to sort, except maybe they'd up the d2d limit.

Mail already travels by plane, if anything I think they'll eventually move away from sending stuff by plane except for like to the IoM, channel islands, etc as it must cost way more and they could do away with dbfs in MCs and send everything in sleeves. With the growth in air travel I doubt there would be the spare capacity for more RM flights.

An increase of mail by rail is a greater possibility as there would be a lot less chances of restrictions on night-time operation.

I can't see DSA going away as DOs would have to deliver ALL MS2 and MS3 on a Saturday.

No vans? Do you propose then that walkers take all packets no matter how huge they are?

[Martin Walsh]

Look we all might think turning back to the old days are the answers to Royal Mail problems but lets examine some of this.

The CWU argued to go to one delivery because 95% of mail was going out on the first delivery which meant that in lots of offices for every seven first deliveries their was just one second delivery. it created lots of part timers whose job was just to the first delivery. In addition it meant earlier and earlier starts there was a dispute in 1990s involving Newcastle where Royal Mail imposed 3 0 clock starts along with other unacceptable working praticise and clear frame policy. Two deliveries is no longer the answer unless you want to do a letter delivery and then a parcel/ packet delivery.

London trailed evening deliveries and it did not work , it was a loss leader but there was insufficient volumes to support the trial being extended.

Look the golden age of Royal Mail has gone. There is overwhelming evidence of structural decline in the core letter market.This will continue to create pressure on the enconmnics and sustainability of the USO.

Royal Mail no longer operates a monopoly as it did when we had two deliveries , we now have a liberalising market which faces both growing and unfair competition including end to end.

Despite the pension solution Royal Mail will need significant and ongoing capital investment to grow packets , parcels and devlop innovative new products and solutions.

The encomonic outlook is dire. It is differcult to envisage any government in the foreseeable future prioritising financial support for Royal Mail.

Faced with the above and knowing packets are increasing faster then at any time why Royal Mail or the CWU would want to go back to bikes. The real concern for us all is that Mark Higson and Royal Mail want to remove all packets which cannot fit through the average letter box into parcel force and this would cost thousands of jobs within Royal Mail as attendance calls etc would virtually cease.

Planes are still in use , but trains and the TPO are unlikely to reappear as the mail centre closures and the creation of NDC allow for more direct runs Especailly with the new triple dockers.

Start times are a strange thing , I have been in disputes when Royal Mail wanted to move us earlier than 0600 and then I have been involved in strike action when they wanted to move us from 05:30 back to 0600.

Of course the real issue for most is not neccesary the start time it is the finish time. The problem is automation and the fact that mail has to now be processed and automated prior to it arriving into your office. Mail Centres only do one sort except for their own inward mail.

Equalky in Royal Mail's believe is the earlier the start the least productive an office is due to the fact that appoxmately at 0600 you still do not have all of your manuel or your second batch of sequencing. However their are plenty of offices who still have reasonable start times but it will depend on when your second batch of mail is there.

[Lee42]

Firstly, Im not a soldier ,.

DER!! I was being sarcarsted Lee !!

Did you mean SARCASTIC?

[Bahia Feliz]

Firstly, Im not a soldier ,.

DER!! I was being sarcarsted Lee !!

Did you mean SARCASTIC?

Yes Lee i spelt that wrong on purpose!!

[dvbuk55]

What isn't moving forward is arse licking every whim that RM has, I'm surprised there hasn't been a Joint Statement on the correct speed of tongue.

[oypostie]

The real concern for us all is that Mark Higson and Royal Mail want to remove all packets which cannot fit through the average letter box into parcel force and this would cost thousands of jobs within Royal Mail as attendance calls etc would virtually cease.

But if you get rid of all the large packets then surely bikes make sense again
Anyway can't see it happening as they've bought all those nice new vans. They wouldn't be that stupid. Would they

[chunk]

Look we all might think turning back to the old days are the answers to Royal Mail problems but lets examine some of this.

The CWU argued to go to one delivery because 95% of mail was going out on the first delivery which meant that in lots of offices for every seven first deliveries their was just one second delivery. it created lots of part timers whose job was just to the first delivery. In addition it meant earlier and earlier starts there was a dispute in 1990s involving Newcastle where Royal Mail imposed 3 0 clock starts along with other unacceptable working praticise and clear frame policy. Two deliveries is no longer the answer unless you want to do a letter delivery and then a parcel/ packet delivery.

London trailed evening deliveries and it did not work , it was a loss leader but there was insufficient volumes to support the trial being extended.

Look the golden age of Royal Mail has gone. There is overwhelming evidence of structural decline in the core letter market.This will continue to create pressure on the enconmnics and sustainability of the USO.

Royal Mail no longer operates a monopoly as it did when we had two deliveries , we now have a liberalising market which faces both growing and unfair competition including end to end.

Despite the pension solution Royal Mail will need significant and ongoing capital investment to grow packets , parcels and devlop innovative new products and solutions.

The encomonic outlook is dire. It is differcult to envisage any government in the foreseeable future prioritising financial support for Royal Mail.

Faced with the above and knowing packets are increasing faster then at any time why Royal Mail or the CWU would want to go back to bikes. The real concern for us all is that Mark Higson and Royal Mail want to remove all packets which cannot fit through the average letter box into parcel force and this would cost thousands of jobs within Royal Mail as attendance calls etc would virtually cease.

Planes are still in use , but trains and the TPO are unlikely to reappear as the mail centre closures and the creation of NDC allow for more direct runs Especailly with the new triple dockers.

Start times are a strange thing , I have been in disputes when Royal Mail wanted to move us earlier than 0600 and then I have been involved in strike action when they wanted to move us from 05:30 back to 0600.

Of course the real issue for most is not neccesary the start time it is the finish time. The problem is automation and the fact that mail has to now be processed and automated prior to it arriving into your office. Mail Centres only do one sort except for their own inward mail.

Equalky in Royal Mail's believe is the earlier the start the least productive an office is due to the fact that appoxmately at 0600 you still do not have all of your manuel or your second batch of sequencing. However their are plenty of offices who still have reasonable start times but it will depend on when your second batch of mail is there.

its windy today...
why dont we just say that they (rm) need the extra hour to walksort the mail.

[Martin Walsh]

What isn't moving forward is arse licking every whim that RM has, I'm surprised there hasn't been a Joint Statement on the correct speed of tongue.

I expected a better discussion from you Dvbuk. nut perhaps the unions Communcations is not good but for your information the so called love as you see it has ans is getting heated.

Over the last week the union has been discussing and the following

1- launching a day when DSA mail is noted processed or delivered. This will be in line with protecting the USO.
2 Despite legal pressure the union did not repudiate the unoffical action in Crosby and supported all those involved.
3. Have come out and openly stated they will not support the upper decile.
4. have applied pressure on Royal Mail to honour the joint statements and Royal mail have conceded that the revisons they were blocking would now come in.
5 That we will not support any proposals to take packets bigger than the average letter box away from Royal Mail.
6. That we would not support privitisation in any shape or form.

It is the lack of comms I get frustrated too .

[IloveMYredTROLLEY!]

The real concern for us all is that Mark Higson and Royal Mail want to remove all packets which cannot fit through the average letter box into parcel force and this would cost thousands of jobs within Royal Mail as attendance calls etc would virtually cease.

At our gaff we have recently been asked to leave all attendence packets instead of folowing standard cutting off procedure (because cut-off bandits are in short supply these days, shock horror) and even then some walks are still going over by >60 minutes when doing the job something close to how it should be done.

[dvbuk55]

What isn't moving forward is arse licking every whim that RM has, I'm surprised there hasn't been a Joint Statement on the correct speed of tongue.

I expected a better discussion from you Dvbuk. nut perhaps the unions Communcations is not good but for your information the so called love as you see it has ans is getting heated.

Over the last week the union has been discussing and the following

1- launching a day when DSA mail is noted processed or delivered. This will be in line with protecting the USO.
2 Despite legal pressure the union did not repudiate the unoffical action in Crosby and supported all those involved.
3. Have come out and openly stated they will not support the upper decile.
4. have applied pressure on Royal Mail to honour the joint statements and Royal mail have conceded that the revisons they were blocking would now come in.
5 That we will not support any proposals to take packets bigger than the average letter box away from Royal Mail.
6. That we would not support privitisation in any shape or form.

It is the lack of comms I get frustrated too .

You're right dingo that was a little below the belt

Communication is vital if the union is to get a cohesive membership. You must be worried surely that this piecemeal modernisation is divisive to say the least. Without the information you put on here we wouldn't know what is going on but even so it still looks as though there is little recourse for the union to take. Even when the union say they are discussing this that and the other it is apparent that there is too much compromise on the unions part and that agreement is made without much change to the original RM plan. Does the union not have any original ideas for change. Not supporting something is a far cry from being able to do anything about it.

[Lee42]

Firstly, Im not a soldier ,.

DER!! I was being sarcarsted Lee !!

Did you mean SARCASTIC?

Yes Lee i spelt that wrong on purpose!!

Ok.

[fishtank]

The real concern for us all is that Mark Higson and Royal Mail want to remove all packets which cannot fit through the average letter box into parcel force and this would cost thousands of jobs within Royal Mail as attendance calls etc would virtually cease.

If that was at all feasible or made any commercial sense it would have already happened and there would be nothing you or i could do about it.
Another year...Another fall out....Another empty Higgo threat.
Work is work,jobs are jobs,PF is still "within Royal Mail" as far as i'm aware.
Ever thought about calling the plasterboarder's bluff...once.

[Martin Walsh]

Fish it is not about calling there bluff they have approached the union not in threat manner that they would like to exit large packets from delivery and are talks with Off com over this. Now this has also been coupled with the launch of Royal Mail 's market reach which offers planning , data provision , print and production , distribution and response and evaluation services of both addressed and unaddressed services.

I think if you realised some of Royal Mail's thinking on things it would shock you . It a danagous game calling someone's bluff remember Readers digest calling parcel forces bluff and going to another provider cause parcel force were moving from a Saturday service and cost lots of jobs.

The attraction from Royal Mail's point of view is if it's removed from the USO is it is not regulated by either price or frequency.

Of course you know better and clearly what Royal Mail are talking about is simply a bluff and they are not serious about any of it.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[fishtank]

Fish it is not about calling there bluff they have approached the union not in threat manner that they would like to exit large packets from delivery and are talks with Off com over this.

You have to look at this in respect of who told you and why?
If it is/was true the entire revision process in every office would have to be redone even though we haven't finished this one,park&loop would no longer be viable or even needed and Higgo will have wasted around £500million of taxpayer/company money on a delivery modernisation project that was no longer fit for purpose and would have to be binned.
He would have to resign on the spot.
Does that seem likely?

Does it also seem likely that RML are going to surrender a chunk of one of the only growth markets to PF and try to sustain the USO with letters and D2D?
Would Ofcom let them take a step that would undeniably risk the sustainability of the USO?
I think someone is having a laugh at our expense again dingo,honest they were going to stop delivering D2D...and paying into the pension...and stop check off...go bankrupt,introduce the Dutch model etc,etc,

[Stormproof]

Why have'nt we got dedicated packet drivers like we use to have years ago? One of the duties I used to do 20 years ago was packets, obviously we did'nt have the sort of packets we have now but we had plenty of catalogue items, plants etc. 20+ years ago PF was failing big time and it was us that bailed them out. Perhaps we should go back to introducing these duties again, then the majority of the P & L duties may work