Divsional Reps meeting with Mark Higson

[Glenno]

this is a question I put forward many times

[dvbuk55]

The tools RM are using for indoor and outdoor resource are so complex that they hide a multitude of back alleys for management and planners to play cat and mouse with a rep for decades

And without the support of Area and Divisional reps a unit rep has got little or no chance.
Do the Area and Divisional reps understand the tools any better?

Do they give a sh*t, whatever happens it won't affect them, so it's anything goes boys but don't rock the boat.

[hans solo]

if anything goes watch me tmrrw d2d just arrived in today after delivery they will expect it all delivered oh it will up to finish time hee hee

[clashcityrocker]

Do they give a sh*t, whatever happens it won't affect them, so it's anything goes boys but don't rock the boat.

I would never accuse them of not giving a s**t. I've seen them go the extra mile for people but there comes a time when you have to admit if you are out of your depth.

[SpacePhoenix]

dingo, any news on the south-west review?

[clashcityrocker]

Now that Higson knows what is going on, it might be a good idea to sort the problems out before xmas or a lot of s**t might be hitting a lot of fans and garnering a lot of bad publicity when he least wants it.

[DGP1]

Now that Higson knows what is going on, it might be a good idea to sort the problems out before xmas or a lot of s**t might be hitting a lot of fans and garnering a lot of bad publicity when he least wants it.

And what is the Christmas thingy you're talking about

[thebiggestman]

Well dingo now you're out of your pram, before you get back in remember now the Mail Centres have shut in London all but the Mount - who wouldn't walk if the building was on fire under their feet. Where is your strenghth now? Anglia has two massive Mail Centres and now a militant staff so they are far stronger than any position you can call upon, does that make them the better reps if they can do the deal instead of firefighting? Let's see what you can do next time the chips are down. Perhaps then you might consider we should have tried harder and not bent over to the worst National Agreement ever seen, which now they want to break and take the piss further

[Martin Walsh]

Well dingo now you're out of your pram, before you get back in remember now the Mail Centres have shut in London all but the Mount - who wouldn't walk if the building was on fire under their feet. Where is your strenghth now? Anglia has two massive Mail Centres and now a militant staff so they are far stronger than any position you can call upon, does that make them the better reps if they can do the deal instead of firefighting? Let's see what you can do next time the chips are down. Perhaps then you might consider we should have tried harder and not bent over to the worst National Agreement ever seen, which now they want to break and take the piss further

I am perfectly calm , and East London has not shut just yet as the professional drivers will still be there next week serving the East London delivery catchment area. Yes I am sad to see both South London and East London closing , I started in South London Mail Centre 27 years ago but anyone who has seen The Nine Elms area recently will know that with the US Embassy moving right next to Nine Elms it was never going to surviive. The sad thing is I was in East London yesterday and In Romford on Tuesday and East London should have been the one that stayed open , it had the space and growth to make sense. However Royal Mail lost faith in getting any agreements which raised productivity and changed what they believe were not the right working praticises. I have dealt with many a dispute in East London over the years and many a time when Managment have taken people off pay or wrongly disciplined someone.

Now what you say about the Mount is not correct , name a dispute when the Mount members were not out the same you in East London I can only thing of once and that was an unofficial dispute and that was when E16 walked due to later starts in 2007 during the pay and mod dispute because e16 was based in East London Mail Centre you went out to support them and then your branch came to us to get London's support cause you were out on your own and we got a lot of London out in support of you and help get the national settlement which got you back to work. yes we had not yet got the Mount out but we believe we would have got them out had it lasted pass the Friday. Only London and Livepool were out at that stage unoffical.

Now Romford will b stronger as a result of a lot of East London moving to Romford. However you forget over 80 East London people are moving to the Mount as well and your make that stronger as well. Of course you will have 18 strong members in E1 hub as well.

You seem to make out we are the enemy but that maybe because you don't know the truth about the facts behind the closure , we have got you all the lump sum money , we got you the overtime you have recieved in East London during the closure period even thou the work was decreasing , we extended the closure by 18 months from the original proposal , we increased the jobs in Romford and changed some of the attendances to make them more popular , we have given people the option of the mount even thou this was not on offer to South London staff.

We will agree to disagree over the National Agreement as like I said all of the North West , Thames Valley , Midlands and most London Mail centres closed before their was an agreement on Business Transformation and some people in Crewe were forced to leave on VR which Is in my opinion complusory redundancy.

[Budfrog]

some people in Crewe were forced to leave on VR which Is in my opinion complusory redundancy.

RM have been making staff (managers and OPGs) compulsory redundant for some time ... blackmailing them to leave on 'VR'. I quote directly from a standard letter sent out by HR services:

You have recently been informed that you have not been appointed to a role following the SAE process. Therefore regrettably, you are at risk of redundancy.

If you do not accept this (VR) offer, in the light of the fact that you have not been appointed to a SAE role, the company will consider the termination of your employment on the grounds of compulsory redundancy.

If you do not accept severance and are subsequently made redundant on a compulsory basis, an immediate enhanced pension will not be payable.

So faced with the prospect of either taking VR on enhanced terms or redundancy on Govt Min terms the vast majority (certainly section C) take 'Voluntary Redundancy' ... only in many cases there is nothing Voluntary about it !! But when RM spin rolls in action the people forced out or blackmailed into leaving (which it is) are classed a Volunteers in statistics quoted to the Govt and the media. If this is not Bullying and Harassment of staff members I do not know what is !

[Martin Walsh]

Bud that applies to managers and senior managers . Both of these are not covered by MTSF. The national agreement talks about no complusory redundancies and MTSF lays down the process .

[dvbuk55]

some people in Crewe were forced to leave on VR which Is in my opinion complusory redundancy.

RM have been making staff (managers and OPGs) compulsory redundant for some time ... blackmailing them to leave on 'VR'. I quote directly from a standard letter sent out by HR services:

You have recently been informed that you have not been appointed to a role following the SAE process. Therefore regrettably, you are at risk of redundancy.

If you do not accept this (VR) offer, in the light of the fact that you have not been appointed to a SAE role, the company will consider the termination of your employment on the grounds of compulsory redundancy.

If you do not accept severance and are subsequently made redundant on a compulsory basis, an immediate enhanced pension will not be payable.

So faced with the prospect of either taking VR on enhanced terms or redundancy on Govt Min terms the vast majority (certainly section C) take 'Voluntary Redundancy' ... only in many cases there is nothing Voluntary about it !! But when RM spin rolls in action the people forced out or blackmailed into leaving (which it is) are classed a Volunteers in statistics quoted to the Govt and the media. If this is not Bullying and Harassment of staff members I do not know what is !

I don't believe and said at the time that the agreement DIDN'T say there would be no compulsory redundancies only that they would try to avoid it and that would be the "overarching" principle - but it was pointed out that if there was no work then the stark reality was VR under sufferance.

It looks like there are clouds on the horizon on Mount Olympus, the Gods seem to be falling out.

[Martin Walsh]

It meant exactly that and the recent job security agreement stengthen it . Why do you think London balloted over the mail centres issues and got the support of the rest of the union ? Cause we cannot accept complusory redundancies .

[Budfrog]

Bud that applies to managers and senior managers . Both of these are not covered by MTSF. The national agreement talks about no complusory redundancies and MTSF lays down the process .

I understand what you are saying Dingo and whilst MTSF was an agreement that also covered managerial grades RM gave notice that they would no longer honour it for those grades. The point I was trying to make is that RM tries to dress everything up as if it is voluntary when it quite clearly is not. People have really been given no choice whatsoever and RM still tells the media and the Govt that no-one has been made redundant when in practical terms, in the real world, they have. It's a totally dishonest way to go about your business .....

[hubbahubba]

dingo, any news on the south-west review?

BUMP