Divsional Reps meeting with Mark Higson

[mr deeds]

dingo have a look at http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 31&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; branch leave local reps on there own to get wasted ... yes i am a rep and i have several griev/diss stage 2 going on but nobody listens thinking branch likes ther time off and f*ck the rest of us ......dom can do what he wants because by the time branch gets of there arse it's already in.....losing faith ready to jack it in

[gb93]

Thanks for the response Dingo.
Though it's your 2nd off last sentence that sort of proves the point I was getting at.
The new director coming in changing the goalposts and pushing for more.
Maybe those above thought the London area was getting it too easy in their revisions, maybe the union was doing too good a job for the members for RM liking.
My point is what you are seeing now is what the rest of country have had from start without strong union support.
Respect to you for wanting to fight in your area now, But the rest of the country have had this for over 2 year now & a lot of your responses has been to say stop moaning it ain't that bad.
I wish you & members well down there if you decide to fight it & if it came to a national dispute I would support it.

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk your office introduced a revison prior the us having a national agreement and you have the nerve to criticise other parts of the UK for agreeing the right revison rather than a quick revison. Quite frankly it is not how quick you do a revison but making sure you get the right agreements which is endorsed by the members. Londom took a postion where w stopped revisons twice once on the mail centre closure when compulsory redundancies were a threat ans the second to ensure that FTCs over 2 years got a permanent contract which they have now got.

So unlike some on here I actually do something to change things I don't like , too many just moan and groan. The CWU can only protect all offices if the members organise in each workplace.

[Martin Walsh]

GB the difference is we will stand together and they won't get a revison agreed unless they abide by the terms of our agreements. We have done this so many times and unity is really strength if people want it to be.

[fishtank]

So unlike some on here I actually do something to change things I don't like
.

I should hope so,it's part of your job description but i respect the fact that you do.
Others who share the same basic job description....don't.

The CWU can only protect all offices if the members organise in each workplace.

And the members will only organise in each workplace if they believe the CWU will protect all offices.
It's a circle thing...it needs to be.

[gb93]

GB the difference is we will stand together and they won't get a revison agreed unless they abide by the terms of our agreements. We have done this so many times and unity is really strength if people want it to be.

Fair point Dingo.
But to stand together you need brave Generals & brave foot soldiers.
Problem is most areas have neither.
Now where the blame lies, Generals or foot soldiers ?

[Martin Walsh]

GB nothing is easy Royal Mail nowadays , when I first started in 1984 the joke was slow down they don't pay you enough to work.

However few companies have seen the change Royal Mail have faced through the digital revolution , decline in letter traffic , DSA introducing loss of revenue , a Regualtor who did not allow price rices or new products to be introduced , the pension deficit , 3 attempts to privitisation and the Hooper report demanding automation.

There are members and posters on here who believe the union had a right to veto the above and ignore all the above was happening. However that is the easy option for some to blame the CWU when in reality we all knew that the race for time was going to come to an end.

Change was always going to happen !

[dvbuk55]

Dvbuk your office introduced a revison prior the us having a national agreement and you have the nerve to criticise other parts of the UK for agreeing the right revison rather than a quick revison. Quite frankly it is not how quick you do a revison but making sure you get the right agreements which is endorsed by the members. Londom took a postion where w stopped revisons twice once on the mail centre closure when compulsory redundancies were a threat ans the second to ensure that FTCs over 2 years got a permanent contract which they have now got.

So unlike some on here I actually do something to change things I don't like , too many just moan and groan. The CWU can only protect all offices if the members organise in each workplace.

Absolute bollocks dingo - we went ahead with P&L long before the norm using the Durham blueprint AS ADVISED TO DO SO BY THE UNION when we queried it. Unlike many offices ours voted AGAINST the revision and supported the 2009 strike and every strike for that matter. Right revision? Show me the right revision that is using all the equipment and is working.

As for savings - don't I remember a letter from Higson to Dave Ward saying that the revisions will not be cost led - why doesn't Davie shove that in his face?

[dvbuk55]

GB nothing is easy Royal Mail nowadays , when I first started in 1984 the joke was slow down they don't pay you enough to work.

However few companies have seen the change Royal Mail have faced through the digital revolution , decline in letter traffic , DSA introducing loss of revenue , a Regualtor who did not allow price rices or new products to be introduced , the pension deficit , 3 attempts to privitisation and the Hooper report demanding automation.

There are members and posters on here who believe the union had a right to veto the above and ignore all the above was happening. However that is the easy option for some to blame the CWU when in reality we all knew that the race for time was going to come to an end.

Change was always going to happen !

Everyone, including the office cat, knew that change was inevitable what wasn't necessary was the headlong charge into an agreement by a union that had not prepared for it and had absolutely no plan to deal with it - so it was initially neither a plan A nor B - so RMs plan became the only one. The unions hardest work was to sell it to the members as a "joint" venture - hence the roadshow circus.

[fishtank]

There are members and posters on here who believe the union had a right to veto the above and ignore all the above was happening. However that is the easy option for some to blame the CWU when in reality we all knew that the race for time was going to come to an end.

Change was always going to happen !

And what area has embraced change the least?
Our office has always been a strong office,we were out in May 2009 before a lot of London offices,we were out all summer and we were even out in October after the national ballot was called and against the wishes of HQ.
Our members are strong if a little foolhardy but they are not idiots,they accepted that change was coming and we did our best to mitigate that with very little help from branch and zero from division or HQ.
What you are experiencing is nothing new,there is no new plan to break agreements only more of the same thing that HQ has ignored for two years.

Does this ring a bell?

RM Scotland/CWU
Without consultation with the CWU at any level, RM Scotland have continued to use the Capacity Plan in the West as an 'add on' to the IWT and have adopted a Regional policy on lapsing indoor and outdoor. This is in contravention of National Agreements. Disagreements have been submitted and the IR Framework will be used.

In addition they have reported, only after questioning, on a policy to fix IWT at an EP of 120 by 2013. This contravenes a National Agreement on setting performance in DO's and Disagreements are expected where this is proposed in any local activity.

In the West of Scotland RM have proposed the use of Pegasus to estimate a drop in call rate per outdoor duty to increase lapsing. Disagreements have been submitted.

There was a general discussion on relationships at Regional level and a suitable response was agreed. In particular that joint training activity at all levels on IWT, Traffic forecasting and Revision activity have all been sidelined at Regional level despite repeated requests and promises of action. The CWU can only assume that RM Scotland have something to hide. It is becoming evident that RM Scotland are in direct and blatant contravention of BT2010. BT 2010 Scotland is not an option. The CWU will accept nothing less than the benefits to staff in BT 2010.

Revision Activity Model Agreements
All CWU Reps involved in unit revisions should request a copy of the Model Agreement which is agreed at National Level. Area Reps to report to Divisional Reps on each unit revision to date. In particular where private cars are still in use and delivery methods not being used, RM imposing choice between 1 in 4 Saturday's off and increased Part Time staffing.

Area Reps reported back verbally on evidence where RM were in contravention of BT2010. In particular setting duty structures at 100EP even where unit EP is below. This means an extension to temporary contracts until unit meets 100EP. Reps should go to disagreement.

Spookily similar isn't it?

Or this one....from 2011

COMMUNICATION WORKERS UNION
SCOTLAND NO5 BRANCH

AREA DELIVERY REPORT – SCOTLAND NO5 BRANCH

BUSINESS TRANSFORMATION 2010 UPDATE

15 main delivery offices plus satellite offices and SPDO’s.

1 office - £800 payments and shorter working week triggered
2 offices - £200 self-starter revision payments

As you can see out of a total of 25 delivery units only three have received any form of payment under BT2010 and only one has triggered the shorter working week.

The office which has had £800 of payments and triggered the shorter working week is Dundee East (approx 115 staff). The revisions in the office have not worked and the problems associated made local and national headlines for a number of months.

The two offices which received the £200 self -starter have had no futher revision activity.

One of our offices – Perth DO (approx 150 staff) has exhausted the IR framework. The members in the office wish to perform less Saturdays but the business have refused the minimum one in four off agreed as part of BT2010 due to financial implications. The situation has been raised directly with Rob Jenson by Bob Gibson as Royal Mail will not abide by the national agreement. Since Bob’s intervention new talks are now scheduled but should the matter still not be resolved a Rule 13 ballot will be requested.

In all other units reps are eager to engage with Royal Mail to undertake revision activity but the business has no interest in any discussions. In some offices revision activity has been started then abandoned, in others no activity at all has taken place. The business has realised that there are no savings to be made in these offices (in some cases investment of hours are required) and therefore has no interest in any discussions on revisions.

Three CSS machines were installed in the Distribution/WBC site in Perth to sequence mail for Perth DO and the three Dundee delivery offices. Even though these machines are operating they are only sequencing Wave 1 traffic for the Dundee offices then walk sorting Wave 2. This means that the biggest office -Perth DO can get Waves 1 and 2 sequenced without having to change the start times or office plan and therefore not require a revision to take place. The Dundee offices are benefiting from Wave 1 being sequenced, again without the need for a change to the office start time or plan, so no revisions have needed to be implemented.

From Royal Mails perspective, they are generating savings through the use of CSS equipment but have not needed to make transformation payments or incur costs from implementing the shorter working week.

All delivery office managers have aggressively used lapsing to reduce costs and make the budget savings they have been targeted. Unit reps are faced with arguments on a daily basis, never mind weekly IR/Resourcing meetings, about the degree of lapsing. Managers will manipulate figures, harass and bully reps and members to any degree required to ensure lapsing takes place and keeps the budget down. Most reps have had no training on IWT/flexing tool and have not agreed the model week traffic figures used by the manager to justify, when questioned, absorption or lapsing proposed. Most reps struggle to have weekly resourcing meetings where they sit down and discuss IR/resourcing issues – many conversations are just taking place on the office floor. Reps have reported managers changing minutes of IR meetings when sent to the DSM and, and in the case of one rep, the manager falsifying minutes for meetings which never took place.

Thre are issues in some offices, notably Dundee East, where managers have tried to use individual performance standards to try and bully members by continually testing them. The staff normally singled out for testing are ones who cut-off their duty or don’t take out absorption traffice due to walk traffic volume.

Still issues with members taking their cars on delivery, not taking breaks, starting early, finishing late and not claiming overtime. All reps and branch officials have tried to explain that these members are not helping themselves or their colleagues but these perennial problems continue to exist.

Most delivery members in the branch view the delivery aspect of the BT2010 agreement as a failure. They do not see the consolidation of allowances and D2D monies to a delivery supplement as being a positive step although they understand the rationale behind it. The biggest issue is that most branch members do not believe they will ever see a penny from the agreement or the shorter working week. Most delivery members feel they are being asked to deliver more mail than before due to absorption but feel they have not benefited from new delivery methods or any financial benefits.

Reps and branch officials have explained to members that it is Royal Mail that are not fulfililng their responsibilities in relation to the BT2010 agreement but all the members respond with is “what are you lot (the CWU) doing about it?”

It is getting harder to give the members an answer.

Deja Vu

[dvbuk55]

TBH if the union hierarchy weren't so well paid they be driving round in yellow three wheelers with Trotters Independent Traders or something very similar with a bunch of blow up sycophants in the back.

[hans solo]

as i said before fcuk cwu it wont exist in the years after privatisation and only themselves to blame
we need to set up a workers union
forget london as they always forget us

[hans solo]

Let's get things right no one is yet talking about a strike !!! If we get to that point then the it will be played out in a much bigger way with the EU , the Govwrnment and Off comm in the mix.

Fishtank I am not awaree of any region doing a deal at 109 BSI. I would not do It and would not support it.

If you live on Royal Mail chat then you could believe everything in Royal Mail world is a disaster and the CWU is finished.

However as someone who goes into over 100 different delivery offices on a fairly regular basis it is not all doom and gloom. Some have got good attendances and good deals. What is true is people don't like change and doin g deliveries in pairs on CDVs is a major change and not popular. Of course none likes door to door.

Howevr if you asked every office in th UK do you want a 0700 standard time and therefore a 3pm finish even on Saturdays , revisons based on 100bsi, a miniumn 4 hour delivery span , changes to walk sequencing making your work even latter than I would hazard a guess people will not want that ans if you say well the best way to hurt Royal Mail at the moment is to switch off revison activity then I believe most would support that.

absolute pish we were told there was no plan b ffs there wasn,t even plan a
we were coerced to believe the cwu advice after we put them in strong bargaining position
its all coming home to roost now and im laughing my head off at the total and utter incompetance of so called union leasership
we were supposed to be a militant union
dont see much flag waving do you we couldn,t even support public service pension action day last nov
we are run by parasites im afraid sucking off the blood of people who keep them in positions they dont deserve

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk the point was the CWU had a national policy of not agreeing any savings until the business wanted to negotiate the change. Their mantra was we are no longer going to pay for change. You reveal what exactly is wrong with the union nationally. Some places hold the line and force Royal Mail to change and some surrender or hold the coats of those who are fighting. I am not criticising your office but the people who you say said go into the revison.

This is a bizarre thread , I give you information which you all were oblivious too and which you have all been criticising Royal Mail for and the lack of any union opposition too and when I say the unions had enough , I am met with a barrage of abuse and criticism for the union or that London has got off lightly. Some of you need get the chip off your shoulder , it is not going to be 150 the Broadway who gets these proposals and it won't be Headquarters who face the change it will be you.

Hans you say the CWU was a Millant union , it was not , it had militant areas who often helped get the deals for everyone , but the majiority were non militant.

You mention we did not support the national dispute on pensions but we were not involved in the issue so was never ing likely too. In any case we would have hardly got the support of the members when we did not ballot on protecting the final salary scheme and yes I was at the Northampton briefing when it was clear the majority of Branch's were not up for the row.

I do wonder why I bother giving you information which the union has not at times.

[dvbuk55]

Dvbuk the point was the CWU had a national policy of not agreeing any savings until the business wanted to negotiate the change. Their mantra was we are no longer going to pay for change. You reveal what exactly is wrong with the union nationally. Some places hold the line and force Royal Mail to change and some surrender or hold the coats of those who are fighting. I am not criticising your office but the people who you say said go into the revison.

This is a bizarre thread , I give you information which you all were oblivious too and which you have all been criticising Royal Mail for and the lack of any union opposition too and when I say the unions had enough , I am met with a barrage of abuse and criticism for the union or that London has got off lightly. Some of you need get the chip off your shoulder , it is not going to be 150 the Broadway who gets these proposals and it won't be Headquarters who face the change it will be you.

Hans you say the CWU was a Millant union , it was not , it had militant areas who often helped get the deals for everyone , but the majiority were non militant.

You mention we did not support the national dispute on pensions but we were not involved in the issue so was never ing likely too. In any case we would have hardly got the support of the members when we did not ballot on protecting the final salary scheme and yes I was at the Northampton briefing when it was clear the majority of Branch's were not up for the row.

I do wonder why I bother giving you information which the union has not at times.

Well it is true dingo that you get more than your fair share of criticism and you ARE the only one who comes to share the information and I feel at times we are shooting the messenger and that IS wrong. I am sure you are a good bloke but you do seem to take the union line and quite frankly in the last few years their performance has been more than poor. You put the information forward that by rights the union should be communicating to the members. Is it any wonder that the membership feel disenfranchised when they are not included in the negotiations by tacit agreement - I mean who knew the Div reps had a meeting with Higson, other than those participating and what the agenda was likely to be. The union has to be more open with the membership in its dealings with RM and stop appearing to be Polly Parrot with the joint statement routine. TBH it appears that they do not have a single original thought on how to move forward and how to combat the obvious failings of BT2010.

You have just had the Olympics in London and when the winner passes the winning post they are applauded but nobody remembers who came last - when the union actually win a fight they'll be applauded - at the moment they don't seem to be able to choose the ground on which to make a stand and that should have been done long ago because at the moment they're like rabbits in the headlights.