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A Workers Co-Operative....A real future for us all?

Postal workers discussion forum. Discuss the day to day life in a Blue Shirt.
Sharkeyes
Posts: 141
Joined: 13 Sep 2010, 18:47
Gender: Male

A Workers Co-Operative....A real future for us all?

Post by Sharkeyes »

As autumn pressure approaches (Well its already here with online shopping), I can't help but notice that pressure build up in delivery units at this time of year as in previous years. I don't know if yours may be the same, but I can once again sense an air of impending industrial strife on the horizon, as a direct result of the 'blind ludicrous and futile attempts' by RM to 'modernise the business'.....(Oh..is that what they think it is?)


Like many of you, I fear that the worst is yet to come and sadly we are at the point of no return as this RM 'TPO' Modernising train hurtles headlong down a hill with seemingly no brakes, a driver who has fell asleep on the dead mans handle while fumbling for the either the instruction manual or a magic wand.

Lets face it, we're F*^kd and apathy is alive and well.
We have been lied to (Colleague shares), s**t on from a great height, both by RM and the NEC of the CWU which in my opinion has behaved like an RM poodle that laid down and rolled over to have it's tummy tickled.

Five sets of door to door, 'Lapsing, Absorbing, call it what you like, it is 'servitude'! Forced UNPAID OVERTIME!
Now I know that some of you are reading this saying that you don't have to do it, work to your time etc. but how many of you have been intimidated, spoken down to, bribed, arm around the shoulder, given the the 'Give and Take' senario etc. and took it out, only for your kids to be left standing in the school playground at home time because you are still delivering on another 'lapsed walk'.?
These new revisions that 'impose' new ways of working on you are a charter for an early grave, increased sick absense or could be used as weapon to 'get people out of the job who knew the good times', allowing for naive and inexperienced younger 'droids', "yes boss, I'll do that for you boss" to take our places when we are all too ill to run around at the same pace as the Light Infantry. In other words, 'constructive dismissal', oh but wait, "The union agreed to this and these changes", I can hear senior managers say.
That may be so, but they didn't bloody well speak for me when I voted 'NO!' like a huge proportion of us.
Given what's happened, I wonder how many who voted 'YES' would now vote 'NO' if they had the chance again.
Anyway, if we, as 'posties' are to ever get some meaningful say in how mail is delivered in this country, you know, with proper 318's that are workable, proper breaks, real fair and manageable workloads, given back our dignity and powers of discretion when it comes to decisions with customer agreement (If I'm out leave it around the back in the wheelie bin etc.), free from managerial 'dictat' spouting out the propaganda like a political officer on board a Soviet Naval ship, then may be,
'There is an option that we could use as a barging tool'....A workers co-operative.

When it all finally goes pear shaped and the chair resigns and we are all threatened with being sold to an Asian cartel on £6.00 an hour, to be asset stripped and fed to the fat cats to make millions off our backs, we can all do something quite simple but would be very effecctive and I believe, have massive support from both public and business alike.
We all get together, resign on mass (Like those clubs who left the Football League, to form their own Premier League), we set up our own collection, processing and delivery hubs on a small local scale, trunking the distant stuff like we used to do with the NDN's.
Madness you say!
But wait, it IS a very real possibility to do this and would send SHOCKWAVES to Royal Mail, the Government and the CWU, by using THEIR OWN LEGISLATION which allows us (well infact anyone who wants to) to do this.
By setting up our own system (doing what we used to do anyway....is not as if we don't know what needs to be done.), on a local level at first, then linking our NDN runs together.
We could 'cherry pick' like what the other competitors do to us but we can and would under cut them.
After all, if we all said 'stuff your modernisation, your lapsing, your door to door and shitting on us, then there would be NO Posties to deliver their DSA mail. The likes of UK Mail, TNT etc. would either have to recruit massively to fulfill their obligations or use the new RM Workers Co-operative, : eg: Us.
We wouldn't be mandated to perform the USO, so hey presto! 'Saturdays OFF!' Just like Australia Post.
All that would b e left of Royal Mail would be the bare smoldering shell of a once loved and respected national treasure, the envy of the world, that was given a lethal injection by the EU and blessed by it's own controllers as they made its coffin.
Of course, this is all hypothetical, but not impossible. A bitter pill for some may be, joining a renegade break away group, stealing custom and revenue from RM and all the others, going back to early starts and finishes, giving the customer what they actually want, when they want it, for a reasonable price, because we wouldn't be tied down by rules that are for the sake of it, annoying door to door that goes straight into the recycling bin etc.
We all know that the bulk off the business is business sending out to customers, so what about access to the system for the public?
Simple 'Stop me and POST IT!'
A bit like Australia Post's 'Click and send service'. his day and age with the like of Facebook and Twitter all we have to do is update the pages, where we are and when, so as we deliver, we can collect, process and distribute when we all get back.

All sound a bit far feched? Well if I thought of it, how many others are thinking the same? And I don't mean just Royal Mail staff.
In every recession, entrepreneurs thrive. Why should that be one or two individuals when we can all have a slice of the cake, with dividends, shares and real sense of achievement in establishing 'OUR OWN BUSINESS, FOR THE BUSINESS OF OUR CUSTOMERS AND THE COUNTRY and not leaving all to the get rich quick fat cats who want us to slave for them to get rich off our backs while the trains derail and the ship sinks.

The debate is now open......What are your thoughts?
Madness? May be, but what we are doing now was 'madness' 20 years ago.
"Told you this would happen but you wouldn't listen...would yer?"....Who knows...

:thumbup :nana :dance :pray :hmmmm
pav
Posts: 9
Joined: 07 Jun 2007, 10:46

Re: A Workers Co-Operative....A real future for us all?

Post by pav »

s**t dude you should be running this company where i am we cut off more than what we take out in a office with dozens of 20 year men proud men who love there job
protect us
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 167
Joined: 12 Oct 2007, 23:27

Re: A Workers Co-Operative....A real future for us all?

Post by protect us »

What an EXCELLENT post - in fact prob the best I've read on here ever !!! After nearly 14yrs service I feel I have been forced to quit and have had no help nor support from Atos or Cwu - Atos advised a continuation of my duty due to my bad knees - managers thought otherwise and took me off - leaving me with put up and shut up or there's the door as my manager Kindly told me ! Now let me tell you - I did my job over my 14yrs with care and accuracy , hardly had any sick time , always was flexible to help them out when others wouldn't and above all I cared like many old hands do about the job ! Do I feel betrayed , forced out and pushed YES and as for the attitude of managers etc I fail to understand why you would want your staff to feel like this ?! Oh well hopefully I will get my last wage packet corrected too ! I'm only missing 4days but they still don't care !
Baggaz
Posts: 24
Joined: 20 Sep 2011, 19:11
Gender: Male

Re: A Workers Co-Operative....A real future for us all?

Post by Baggaz »

If you would indulge me for being devil's advocate for a second or two, may I be so bold as to ask just how many of your current colleagues you would employ?
DGP1
Posts: 15551
Joined: 07 Jun 2007, 20:39
Gender: Male
Location: Terminus

Re: A Workers Co-Operative....A real future for us all?

Post by DGP1 »

Baggaz wrote:If you would indulge me for being devil's advocate for a second or two, may I be so bold as to ask just how many of your current colleagues you would employ?
Most of them..........even the ones I don't agree with because most of them work as hard as they can (even if that's not up to RMs standard).
I'm preparing myself for the zombie invasion, rule number 1 - Cardio
Lincox
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 3485
Joined: 09 Jan 2008, 18:07
Gender: Male

Re: A Workers Co-Operative....A real future for us all?

Post by Lincox »

A great post, but who is going to finance it? The Banks-no chance. The Government-less chance. Who is going to manage it?
Does Animal Farm ring any bells.
What may be possible is some form of franchising deal, where each member runs his own business, covering a designated area, and arranges own personal financing.
Straight4ward
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 1621
Joined: 25 Oct 2009, 14:32
Gender: Male

Re: A Workers Co-Operative....A real future for us all?

Post by Straight4ward »

So who fancies re-mortgaging their house so that they can continue to deliver D2Ds?
"Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway."
Lincox
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 3485
Joined: 09 Jan 2008, 18:07
Gender: Male

Re: A Workers Co-Operative....A real future for us all?

Post by Lincox »

I quite agree s/fwd but at least as your own boss you can decide not to deliver them. However if you were in charge and being paid 5p-10p an item, you might suddenly see them in a different light.
Straight4ward
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 1621
Joined: 25 Oct 2009, 14:32
Gender: Male

Re: A Workers Co-Operative....A real future for us all?

Post by Straight4ward »

Lincox wrote:I quite agree s/fwd but at least as your own boss you can decide not to deliver them. However if you were in charge and being paid 5p-10p an item, you might suddenly see them in a different light.
In hindsight I should have written who fancies re-mortgaging their house so that the they can continue to deliver DSA material and subsidise our competitors.
"Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway."
kingofmcr
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 197
Joined: 13 Jun 2010, 10:02
Gender: Male

Re: A Workers Co-Operative....A real future for us all?

Post by kingofmcr »

i have left royal mail now .i moved to another area ,and there were no transfers available at the time ..but i did 4 years part time and thinking back a lot of it was bloody awful .i worked in a super market prior to that and thought that was bad ..but compared to the royal mail it was nothing . royal mail is full of lying, cheating, bullying managers and line managers ( barring two) i got cheated out of loads of overtime i did at my own office ,and when being sent to other offices to cover..covering rounds in areas i did not know .deliberate failure to put it down aka as fraud in my opinion..i used to walk in to frames half done tons of mail and pkts waiting ( that only improved in my last 6 months there ,when there was a good manager and line manager there ) ...royal mail in my opinion can get away with all their practises ,because their is a sure start time ..but only a vague finish time if that makes sense..unless your willing to rock the boat and cut off ..then you would be accused of being to slow .how the CWU is let represent the royal mail workers is beyond me . after negotiating what was clearly the biggest turkey deal of the century ..they should have been given there marching orders ...imagine agreeing to unlimited d2ds .and done FOR VIRTUALLY NOTHING ..postmen and women taking pay cuts or should i say 60 per cent of them ..the others ie driver indorr workers etc ..getting a 12 or 20 quid bonus for doing nothing .they did not even have to look at a d2d .but got the wonga ..no wonder they voted yes to the £800 plus 20 a week bonus WOOOO HOOO ..i would say to all you outdoor post men and women ..if you did get your 800 ..take into account how much you have actually lost in pay and d2d payments since the agreement was implemented ..and royal mail have sure recouped there £800 from you .and are now reaping in big profits all for themselves ..
THIS SHOULD BE ROYAL MAILS LOGO
"You may pronounce us guilty a thousand times over, but the goddess of the eternal court of history will smile and tear to tatters the verdict of this court - for she acquits us.
Sharkeyes
Posts: 141
Joined: 13 Sep 2010, 18:47
Gender: Male

Re: A Workers Co-Operative....A real future for us all?

Post by Sharkeyes »

kingofmcr wrote:i have left royal mail now .i moved to another area ,and there were no transfers available at the time ..but i did 4 years part time and thinking back a lot of it was bloody awful .i worked in a super market prior to that and thought that was bad ..but compared to the royal mail it was nothing . royal mail is full of lying, cheating, bullying managers and line managers ( barring two) i got cheated out of loads of overtime i did at my own office ,and when being sent to other offices to cover..covering rounds in areas i did not know .deliberate failure to put it down aka as fraud in my opinion..i used to walk in to frames half done tons of mail and pkts waiting ( that only improved in my last 6 months there ,when there was a good manager and line manager there ) ...royal mail in my opinion can get away with all their practises ,because their is a sure start time ..but only a vague finish time if that makes sense..unless your willing to rock the boat and cut off ..then you would be accused of being to slow .how the CWU is let represent the royal mail workers is beyond me . after negotiating what was clearly the biggest turkey deal of the century ..they should have been given there marching orders ...imagine agreeing to unlimited d2ds .and done FOR VIRTUALLY NOTHING ..postmen and women taking pay cuts or should i say 60 per cent of them ..the others ie driver indorr workers etc ..getting a 12 or 20 quid bonus for doing nothing .they did not even have to look at a d2d .but got the wonga ..no wonder they voted yes to the £800 plus 20 a week bonus WOOOO HOOO ..i would say to all you outdoor post men and women ..if you did get your 800 ..take into account how much you have actually lost in pay and d2d payments since the agreement was implemented ..and royal mail have sure recouped there £800 from you .and are now reaping in big profits all for themselves ..

Yeah great deal, I did 10 sets of door to door these last 2 weeks. I would have normally picked up around £50 for each of the 5 sets per week (£100) but instead only get £13 per week (£26 for the two weeks).
WHAT A FANTASTIC DEAL HAMMERED OUT BY THE CWU! WELL DONE YOU IDIOTS.
I just thank God that none of the NEC are lawyers for people on Death Row in Texas. :no no
Sharkeyes
Posts: 141
Joined: 13 Sep 2010, 18:47
Gender: Male

Re: A Workers Co-Operative....A real future for us all?

Post by Sharkeyes »

The Franchise idea is a realistic option to go down.
Work where you live, sot because we are out and about you can use a bike or better still a 'CYCLO-CARGO', so no transport costs.
You keep the revenue from the mail you collect from the customers in your designated area, deliver the stuff within your area and we all meet for lunch to 'cross dock' our 'mizzies' and the neighbouring mail.
As we would be working for ourselves, 'WE' DECIDE if we want to 'back fill' our daily workload with competitors mail from those companies like 'Hermes', you know, the ones who attract pensioners etc. who do it for about 6 months then give up when the weather turns bad.
We could even out do the milkman by using our smart phones and facebook to offer services such as ,
'Fetch me, carry me',
This is were customers who need something urgent from the shop but can't be arsed going for a 4 pinter of milk or loaf of bread, but because they know that we are near by, can alert us to what they need within 5 - 10 minutes and we charge them accordingly.
Many areas lost their post offices, so we could 'take it to them' (the Stop me and post it). Use a franking machine, charge a little more but less than Royal Mail stamps then either dump it in a meter box or a post office that hasn't closed.
What this shows is that the government legislation has allowed the effective ,
'TOTAL DEREGULATION OF POSTAL SERVICES' which has damaged many other service industries, especially in the TAXI trade in certain parts of the country.
The fact is, if we all stay with Royal Mail or who ever takes it over....'We are fu*^kd! If we don't seriously consider doing something like this, that makes our own work efforts pay for ourselves,
them we are fu^*kd.
Many people are blissfully unaware that a Pandoras Box has been opened in our line of work.
We are constantly told that we are a business. We ll to survive in business you have to be ruthless.
It's a pitty that managers seem to think that it means be ruthless with your best asset....Your own staff.

'If you flog a willing horse, it won't be willing much longer.
If you flog a pitt pony, it WILL Die!'
And too, your business because no one will want to work for a slave driver when he can do the same type and amount of work for 5 times as much money.
Just add up each item you deliver each day, times that by 5 for the week then compare it to your pay. You will be shocked at how much we are being ripped off by our employer.

:evil/mad :Applause :cry :dcfo :dcfo
Lincox
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 3485
Joined: 09 Jan 2008, 18:07
Gender: Male

Re: A Workers Co-Operative....A real future for us all?

Post by Lincox »

Great post sharkeyes. Not for me as too old, but iniviteve, full of ideas. If only Royal Mail had an ounce of the imagination you have, they would not be in the sh.te they are in, and paying a chief executive megabucks for managing the decimation of a company and it,s workforce. An age old idea, that has been the ruination of countless companies.
Sharkeyes
Posts: 141
Joined: 13 Sep 2010, 18:47
Gender: Male

Re: A Workers Co-Operative....A real future for us all?

Post by Sharkeyes »

surewecan wrote:Ive been thinking of doing this on a local level for about 2 years mate , got the business plan all ready , the only thing that has stopped me & a few others who I work with is the lack off funds to keep me going for a couple of months , commitments mortgage etc . :mad

Tax credits mate and also, under the legislation, solo mail operators don't have to charge VAT until you hit £72,000, thats not likely is it, so what you earn you keep.

If you deliver 1000+ items per day each, you are being ripped off when you consider the pittance paid for door to door and what RM rakes in on the postage for that amount of mail you deliver each day, anything around £400 to £800 or more in some cases.
Just take 400 letters x 30p, thats £120 per day x by 5 days = £600 per week.
What would the work be? Remember the big thing on 'INTRA MAIL'? LOCAL TO LOCAL?
There is more than enough of that to go around to sustain an income without killing yourself in the process.
Trust me, if we don't seriously consider doing this sort of thing, others will and are looking at it.
It will be just like taxi deregulation because the legislation is in place.
A free for all which will damage Royal Mail severely, especially in cities.
There are quite a few independent city based 'green'carriers already but none of them are ex posties with the experience and knowledge that we have but just give it time and a few more 'pissed off posties'.

All they need to do, is link up using a cheap third party 'trunker' to move their mail between each other.
That is were the likes of Stobarts and TNT come into who are more than willing to give extra work to what are known as 'goafers', independant people, usually desperate pensioners and young lads who will do anything any where for a few quid. You just back fill your daily work that you undercut RM by with theirs to supplement it.
All you need is a bike but not a 'penny farthing' like the guy in Cornwall.

No re mortgage or loan needed, you don't even have to have a business premiss's. The outside is you workplace and your smart phone, your office.

Just have a look at 'ECO-POSTALE' in Belgium on youtube and you will see what I mean about the way things will go sooner than we think or want to believe and if ever you needed proof that all of these changes are politically motivated by the EU, then this is it, but sadly we either play them at their own game and beat the crappy modernisation changes and the USO Saturday delivery etc. or make no mistake,
'SOME BODY ELSE WILL!'
:evil/mad :arrrghhh :dcfo :vcfo
Sharkeyes
Posts: 141
Joined: 13 Sep 2010, 18:47
Gender: Male

Re: A Workers Co-Operative....A real future for us all?

Post by Sharkeyes »

Lincox wrote:Great post sharkeyes. Not for me as too old, but iniviteve, full of ideas. If only Royal Mail had an ounce of the imagination you have, they would not be in the sh.te they are in, and paying a chief executive megabucks for managing the decimation of a company and it,s workforce. An age old idea, that has been the ruination of countless companies.

Sad but so true. Its a disgrace that we pay the the person who buggered up Canada Post ,£250,000 per year to do the same here. In recent communication with her via her secretary, she as good as told me that they don't know what they are doing. It's the most honest answer I've ever had off Royal Mail.
They do know this much:

The EU wants rid of ALL NATIONAL POSTAL SYSTEMS AND MONOPOLIES.
The EU has conned governments into signing treaties which paved the way for this.
The EU under those articles contained in both the Lisbon and Maastrict Treaties,
has forced governments to set up PUPPET REGULATORS to oversee this (eg, postcomm, ofcom)
The EU has told governments that it has to fulfill these obligations or be 'penalised'
The EU has threatened to 'make things awkward' over the likes of our pension funds if our goverrnent does not comply with EU rules.
The EU falsely takes credit for granting OUR government permission to pay us back OUR OWN MONEY!
The EU has bribed and tempted governments to bring in all of these changes to working practices,
so that NATIONAL CARRIERS LIKE ROYAL MAIL, LA POSTE, etc. WILL FAIL!, thus fuelling the arguements for privatisation further and playing right into the hands of large global private companies waiting,
to ASSET STRIP us and buy us out, to shut us down and in turn swallow up all our custom, jobs and more importantly for our economy,
'TAKE ALL THE REVENUE RAISED THROUGH UK POSTAGE ....ABROAD! NEVER TO RETURN!
THIS IS CRIMINAL AND A CAPITAL OFFENCE IN CHINA, YET WE EMBRACE HERE AS IF IT IS UNSTOPPABLE PROGRESS.
THE EU is solely responsible for our demise and that of Europes postal systems as a whole
Our weak EU loving parties in government will never stand up for you, me or anything that the EU wants rid of because they have too much to lose personally.
:ncfo This guy more so.

The ONLY people who can save Royal Mail is US, you and me, people who care about, love it and want to keep it, THE WAY IT WAS FOR 250 YEARS, the best in the World.
That is why, getting together as a co-operative might just be the only realistic way to save it.