Divsional Reps meeting with Mark Higson

[hans solo]

6 weeks into revision ot hours cut back probs rising
wheres planners we ask away to next do to sort
what about probs
we havent had 1 focus group(ha ha) meeting during revision when low and behold we have one on tue to start resigning procedure(which all ft staff disagree with )on the doms request
rep on hol surprise surprise
shafted left right centre ,people start early ,trolly use ignored ,breaks not being taken mgmt splitting up office
pt agst ft, driver agst walker ,rural agst town well done cwu all arranged with your joint statements and collaberations with rm
so to ask for support from dissulusioned members whose questions and queries are deliberately ignored from area and div reps
to accomodate rm wishesfor their own benefits.
sorry our unions gone ,split destroyed by greed and corruption (im alright jack) from inside
support no chance two finger salute to glasgow cwu giruy

[hans solo]

I have to say , why moan if your not willing to do anything about it ! No one strikes for CWU HQs, you decide to strike by voting on the issus in an indivdual member ballot. You also then decide if you strike.

Now if you think the points I listed are not worth your support then fine that's is your right but don't then moan when they become a reality in your office.

Personally I along with other reps will do our upmost to stop some of these attacks in the area I cover.

The National union has also started applying the pressure , it needs to more in my opinion and take an harder line and f Royal Mail continues to break the national agreement them then the union should advise all units to withdrew from revison talks.

If you believe the union is all pally with the business then that is your opinion. However when the union comes out and makes a stand and there has been a line in the sand drawn then if you as a member then don't support the union then frankly you will be the ones who suffer cause Royal Mail will bring it into your office cause they will know that the membership are not going to resist and will not support the CWU. Remember the CWU is not 150 the Broadway it is every unit in the UK .

It's your choice , but remember no one else will come to your rescue.

and that is exactlly what senior reps were told would happen by going along with and cwu bullying members with their 2010 agreement roadshow pish

[Straight4ward]

Sorry Dingo mate but I sat watching the debate go backwards and forwards like a tennis ball on Wimbledon’s Centre Court for the past two years while our revision was implemented without any guidance or advice from the CWU. During that period the CWU was all for process.
Why on earth would I now jeopardise my income to support offices that have not gone through the process that we’ve been through. No one offered us one crumb of assistance, we were entirely left to fend for ourselves. We’ve endured virtually all the indignities mentioned in your post and did anyone from the CWU show an interest in our plight? Don’t think so!
Far too late to moan – they are a reality; a reality that we and many like us have to deal with on a daily basis.
Why the sudden call to arms, have the revisions reached London?

[dvbuk55]

The National union has also started applying the pressure , it needs to more in my opinion and take an harder line and f Royal Mail continues to break the national agreement them then the union should advise all units to withdrew from revison talks.

If you believe the union is all pally with the business then that is your opinion. However when the union comes out and makes a stand and there has been a line in the sand drawn then if you as a member then don't support the union then frankly you will be the ones who suffer cause Royal Mail will bring it into your office cause they will know that the membership are not going to resist and will not support the CWU. Remember the CWU is not 150 the Broadway it is every unit in the UK .

It's your choice , but remember no one else will come to your rescue.

The line drawn in the sand dingo is a hundred miles behind the members. Well my opinion is that the union are in the pocket of RM and if you think differently then you need to convince a lot more than just me. The CWU is not 150 Broadway is a load of bullshit, they are the ones who negotiate, they are the ones who called off the strike in 2009, they are the ones who have supported BT 2010 despite the opposition to it, they are the ones who sign the joint statements, they are the ones who have consistently ignored the problems with the agreement, they have consistently ignored the B&H, they are the ones who rake in the cash. As for RM bringing whatever they like in - well it happens anyway, ignored use of equipment, use of private cars ffs after DM revisions.Management do nothing to ensure the agreement is maintained and the CWU do nothing to ensure that they do. Get real dingo - it strikes me that as the revisions get closer to home then there is a sudden doubt about BT2010 that was the bees knees previously.

I've never made any secret of the fact that I was totally against BT2010 and withdrew union membership for a year as a result and that wasn't the fact that BT2010 was voted in but for the fact that it was put to the membership with such a resounding recommendation by none other than 150 The Broadway who despite the codswallop spouted IS the union to all intents and purposes. As for coming to the members rescue - when was the last time that happened as a collective?

[fishtank]

It's your choice , but remember no one else will come to your rescue.

I think you need to understand that a lot of these members are well aware of the fact that no one is coming to their rescue...that may be part of the problem.
They have already seen their offices destroyed by Royal Mail's plans and what you or others like you have to convince them of is that by fighting now they can make a difference to their own position as well as others and they are not just being used to "rescue" those that have yet to feel the force of those plans.
I have yet to see any concrete evidence that the union intends to force Royal Mail into addressing the mess it has already made rather than just preventing future failures.

You might want to start by getting your colleagues at divisional level to get their own branches in order since it's a bit embarrassing to complain about Royal Mail's default 100BSI position when some branches are actively encouraging revisions based on 109EP.

[woofwoof]

It's your choice , but remember no one else will come to your rescue.

I think you need to understand that a lot of these members are well aware of the fact that no one is coming to their rescue...that may be part of the problem.
They have already seen their offices destroyed by Royal Mail's plans and what you or others like you have to convince them of is that by fighting now they can make a difference to their own position as well as others and they are not just being used to "rescue" those that have yet to feel the force of those plans.
I have yet to see any concrete evidence that the union intends to force Royal Mail into addressing the mess it has already made rather than just preventing future failures.

You might want to start by getting your colleagues at divisional level to get their own branches in order since it's a bit embarrassing to complain about Royal Mail's default 100BSI position when some branches are actively encouraging revisions based on 109EP.

Maybe not the branch but cwu regions

[Martin Walsh]

There was no bullying with the roadshows local reps had opportunities to hear the agreement being explained and to answer questions. Branches were then allowed to make their own independent recommendations to the members. Then every member was given a ballot paper at their home address.

The result was the agreement was endorsed and whilst many might not have voted that way the fact is it was a yes to the agreement.

You can look at what Royal Mail are doing in two ways , the actual agreement has stopped Royal Mail making the savings they said they would doin delivery offices and every attempt they have made to break the agreement has been seen off. So now they have changed their regional Managment structure to attack delivery offices again and break the terms of the joint statements.

There have been plenty of agreements I have no liked but I don't take my ball home and sulk iMake sure I fight the worst aspects of that agreements and ensure my members get the benefits.

[Martin Walsh]

Let's get things right no one is yet talking about a strike !!! If we get to that point then the it will be played out in a much bigger way with the EU , the Govwrnment and Off comm in the mix.

Fishtank I am not awaree of any region doing a deal at 109 BSI. I would not do It and would not support it.

If you live on Royal Mail chat then you could believe everything in Royal Mail world is a disaster and the CWU is finished.

However as someone who goes into over 100 different delivery offices on a fairly regular basis it is not all doom and gloom. Some have got good attendances and good deals. What is true is people don't like change and doin g deliveries in pairs on CDVs is a major change and not popular. Of course none likes door to door.

Howevr if you asked every office in th UK do you want a 0700 standard time and therefore a 3pm finish even on Saturdays , revisons based on 100bsi, a miniumn 4 hour delivery span , changes to walk sequencing making your work even latter than I would hazard a guess people will not want that ans if you say well the best way to hurt Royal Mail at the moment is to switch off revison activity then I believe most would support that.

[mandelsons_toenail]

So what do we set our bsi at?

Sick of harassment from Dom about ours!?

[P13]

Part of the beyond 2010 agreement is the use of trolleys when is the union nationally going to enforce their use because in my office and I believe plenty of other offices very few people are using them. The few people who are using them and doing their job properly as asked by our union are the targets for daily bullying harrasment and intimidation by managers

[fishtank]

Howevr if you asked every office in th UK do you want a 0700 standard time and therefore a 3pm finish even on Saturdays , revisons based on 100bsi, a miniumn 4 hour delivery span , changes to walk sequencing making your work even latter than I would hazard a guess people will not want that.

And offices that already have that or worse?
How much support can we expect from those offices?

There are only two possible outcomes from switching off revision activity,the first is a Royal Mail climbdown which is all well and good for the offices that have yet to go through a revision but not so good for the others which leaves us with more division,more fragmentation and more disengagement,possibly fatal this time.
The second is the imposition of change by executive action which will lead to industrial action and in which case you will need all the support you can get,especially from offices that have already gone through a DM revision.
So the choice is a stark one,engage the membership as one and resolve the issues as one for the good of all or risk tearing the union apart...
Local won't cut it this time.

[gb93]

Just a question or 2
What percentage of offices in the London Weighting area went through a DM revision up to say 2 months ago,
And what percentage have gone through one in the last 3 month say, or have one planned to happen in next 3 months.

[DGP1]

I'd love a 4 hour delivery.............much better than the 5 hour plus that I'm doing now.

As for the 100%bsi...........the manager and the planners decided on the model week and the bsi and their comment was that they didn't need the union rep to sign off on these. Which has resulted in many of us withdrawing from any part of the process (not that it would be hard because the planners hide from us).

And I'm really looking forward to seeing this being brought in by October

[Martin Walsh]

Just a question or 2
What percentage of offices in the London Weighting area went through a DM revision up to say 2 months ago,
And what percentage have gone through one in the last 3 month say, or have one planned to happen in next 3 months.

Ok here goes all offices in W2-14 have had a delivery methods revison. 14 of the 18 delivery offices in E1-18 have had them.
EC1-4 and WC and W1 have had delivery method revisons. 9 offices out of the 22 offices in North London have had a delivery method revison. In South East London 6 delivery method revisons out of 28 offices . South West 6 offices out of 20 have had delivery methods and 5 offices out of 11 in North West.

The majority in East , North , South East and South West were introduced prior to the Olympics. No revisons could be agreed for implementation during the Olympics.

We have several agreements for introduction but the new regional managers are trying to get more savings and we are not having it.

So contrary to what people believe there have been delivery methods revisons in London.

[dvbuk55]

Let's get things right no one is yet talking about a strike !!! If we get to that point then the it will be played out in a much bigger way with the EU , the Govwrnment and Off comm in the mix.

Fishtank I am not awaree of any region doing a deal at 109 BSI. I would not do It and would not support it.

If you live on Royal Mail chat then you could believe everything in Royal Mail world is a disaster and the CWU is finished.

However as someone who goes into over 100 different delivery offices on a fairly regular basis it is not all doom and gloom. Some have got good attendances and good deals. What is true is people don't like change and doin g deliveries in pairs on CDVs is a major change and not popular. Of course none likes door to door.

Howevr if you asked every office in th UK do you want a 0700 standard time and therefore a 3pm finish even on Saturdays , revisons based on 100bsi, a miniumn 4 hour delivery span , changes to walk sequencing making your work even latter than I would hazard a guess people will not want that ans if you say well the best way to hurt Royal Mail at the moment is to switch off revison activity then I believe most would support that.

How many of those 100 offices have had DM revisions, how many are using the agreed equipment, how many have P&L. Some have got good attendances - which means some haven't and there we have the winners and losers scenario so prevalent in union speak in the last few years. As for the delivery span, as I recall, the union agreed to drop the 3.5 hour delivery span as an "enabler" and therefore opened the floodgates for longer and longer deliveries.

Switch off revision activity? are you for real? what about the 600 that have already had revision and whose start and finish times are even later than 0700 are they going to go backwards and would the union support that? Of course they wouldn't. If it comes to a national stand on the BT2010 agreement - well the boats already sailed.

The roadshows dingo would have been totally unnecessary if the BT2010 agreement had been transparent - it wasn't and is still in dispute over 2 years later. Was it even communicated to each and every member - no. Tell me if you think the vote was fair then why WAS the roadshows necessary and why was the Area and Div reps exhorted into making positive noises about the agreement.

Having seen the numbers dingo it would seem a pretty small proportion considering the length of time the agreement has been in wouldn't you say? I mean the Olympics was in 2012 and the agreement in 2010...............pretty loose excuse really. I presume the revisions will pick up a pace now unless of course..........