NEC By-Election 2012

[dvbuk55]

I think the voting process needs a bit of an update. Why are people so reluctant to become involved in union affairs even to the point of not voting in important elections.

their sun readers perhaps? if people take no interest in affairs that could improve their lot perhaps they deserve all they get. good luck to kye dudd, i personally didn't vote for him, but he won fair and square so i wish him all the best.

Well it isn't really the candidate that worries me in fact to the contrary because I did vote for him. What worries me is the total lack of engagement by the membership and even more worrying is the reluctance by the union in whatever guise be it HQ, Branch or Reps to emphasis the importance of becoming aware of union affairs and how the decisions taken affect them. Kye talks about getting young people involved but there doesn't seem to be any effort at all to recruit them either to being active or actually joining the union at all - hence the fall in numbers.

[fishtank]

their sun readers perhaps? if people take no interest in affairs that could improve their lot perhaps they deserve all they get.

If we take no interest in why people take no interest in affairs that could improve their lot perhaps we all deserve all we get.
What their particular flavour of newspaper is...is irrelevant.
Putting them in particular boxes is...dangerous.
Ignoring them is...suicidal unless we want to be the smallest independent,industrial union in history....or a staff association.

[silly suffolk]

their sun readers perhaps? if people take no interest in affairs that could improve their lot perhaps they deserve all they get.

If we take no interest in why people take no interest in affairs that could improve their lot perhaps we all deserve all we get.
What their particular flavour of newspaper is...is irrelevant.
Putting them in particular boxes is...dangerous.
Ignoring them is...suicidal unless we want to be the smallest independent,industrial union in history....or a staff association.

as the old saying go's we will all go to hell in a hand cart. if the vast majority of staff take no interest in their union and who represents them then yes, they deserve what they get, and if they buy a anti union tabloid which fills their heads with propaganda on a drip basis daily i do not believe that is irrelevent. what is irrelelevant is always being critical of our union but not trying to improve it.

[fishtank]

what is irrelelevant is always being critical of our union but not trying to improve it.

That's anything but irrelevant because as a union if you don't try to understand why members feel like that you cannot begin to understand how to change that mindset and if you don't try to change that mindset you might as well book a phone box for your branch AGM and if you're lucky a port-a-cabin for annual conference.

When unions give up on members,members give up on unions,the union doesn't just belong to the activists...unless you plan to hand back the subs of the silent or even moaning 90%.
You cannot on the one hand use them as a cash cow and on the other hand deny them the right to complain when they feel they are being sold short....that's hypocrisy.

Telling 120,000 postal members they have to either become involved or shut up or that their opinion is irrelevant because they aren't active in the union is ludicrous,short-sighted and just the kind of Gentleman's Club thinking that has disengaged members for years.
Do you have a plan to get all of these members adequate release time to become involved?
It might have escaped your notice but most of them have full-time jobs.

[Billy Ray]

Congratulations Kye you got my vote and lots of others I know. Its time this union sat up and took notice of people like yourself. Instead of the same old rubbish we hear year after year from others.

[Oldham600]

Good luck on the Saturdays, but can see you hitting a brick wall seeing as Royal Mail are committed to the Universal Postal agreement which states Saturday deliveries and collections must be completed. By the way im not mocking your ideas just looking at the realism of it all, plus RM wouldnt need as many staff to complete the work so is that the way we need to move forward?

[somerset]

Good luck on the Saturdays, but can see you hitting a brick wall seeing as Royal Mail are committed to the Universal Postal agreement which states Saturday deliveries and collections must be completed. By the way im not mocking your ideas just looking at the realism of it all, plus RM wouldnt need as many staff to complete the work so is that the way we need to move forward?

Wouldnt need as many staff ? Tell you what mate. If they were to offer out VR in my office , the manager would be swamped for requests.

[silly suffolk]

what is irrelelevant is always being critical of our union but not trying to improve it.

That's anything but irrelevant because as a union if you don't try to understand why members feel like that you cannot begin to understand how to change that mindset and if you don't try to change that mindset you might as well book a phone box for your branch AGM and if you're lucky a port-a-cabin for annual conference.

When unions give up on members,members give up on unions,the union doesn't just belong to the activists...unless you plan to hand back the subs of the silent or even moaning 90%.
You cannot on the one hand use them as a cash cow and on the other hand deny them the right to complain when they feel they are being sold short....that's hypocrisy.

Telling 120,000 postal members they have to either become involved or shut up or that their opinion is irrelevant because they aren't active in the union is ludicrous,short-sighted and just the kind of Gentleman's Club thinking that has disengaged members for years.
Do you have a plan to get all of these members adequate release time to become involved?
It might have escaped your notice but most of them have full-time jobs.

i have a full time job and get involved. being critical is easy. changing things is a different ball game. if your not up to it you have except the status quo. if you believe there is always some one out there to argue for your point of view your mistaken. you must get your point of view across. thats what elections are for, and if most can't be bothered to vote then so be it. kye dudd is quite radical in his views, but good luck to him. he's had the balls to try and change things. unlike others.

[fishtank]

i have a full time job and get involved. being critical is easy. changing things is a different ball game. if your not up to it you have except the status quo.

You're not involved in the union suffolk,you're involved in the 10% of the union who are involved.
The other 90% you have written off as not worth the bother.
The problem with that is two-fold,you still want to collect the subs from that 90% and your 10% is 10% of a dwindling pot.
How few active members does their have to be before we realise it's the union's job to engage members and if need be change itself unilaterally to actively engage members?
The status quo isn't working...obviously...so as an "involved" member are you up to changing it before it's too late?
Or are the inactive 90% just too easy a target for blame when it all goes tits up?

[dvbuk55]

Getting involved is not the same as changing things as is experienced in the way the union is organised. The union amalgamated with the promise of change and what we got was no change at all. How involved is it to provide the funds to perpetuate an ailing system? What would be the result if the 90% said bugger it we're seeing no advantage in paying the subs only to have a non representative committee make decisions that bear no relationship to our everyday workplace. A voice in the wilderness is not going to be effective in the slightest and is more than likely going to be coerced into accepting the majority view whether it be right or wrong.

[silly suffolk]

i have a full time job and get involved. being critical is easy. changing things is a different ball game. if your not up to it you have except the status quo.

You're not involved in the union suffolk,you're involved in the 10% of the union who are involved.
The other 90% you have written off as not worth the bother.
The problem with that is two-fold,you still want to collect the subs from that 90% and your 10% is 10% of a dwindling pot.
How few active members does their have to be before we realise it's the union's job to engage members and if need be change itself unilaterally to actively engage members?
The status quo isn't working...obviously...so as an "involved" member are you up to changing it before it's too late?
Or are the inactive 90% just too easy a target for blame when it all goes tits up?

its hard to engage people who don't want to be engaged. on a daily basis im told the union is s##t and we would be better off without it. if that's peoples opinion so be it, but its not mine. in my opinion our terms and conditions in royal mail compare favorably to the real world out there. if the cwu is to crash and burn it will be down to apathy not perceived poor leadership. we are a democratic union and if the rank and file want to be rid of under achieving national figures ,div and area and local reps that's what the election process is for.

[fishtank]

if the cwu is to crash and burn it will be down to apathy

Yes it will but what has caused this apathy?
It's too easy just to say the members are apathetic so it's all their fault.
The union cannot afford to wait on changes of leadership to change direction,that change must be driven by those already in post,there are enough people involved who realise that change is crucial to drag the reactionaries into the 21st Century but the first thing we must do is stop blaming the members for the way they feel.
They feel that way for a reason and it's nothing to do with economic issues or job insecurity or the newspapers they read.
They feel that way because they are disengaged from the CWU in particular and the trade union movement in general.I don't believe they don't want to be engaged,if they felt that strongly they would probably leave,i just think they look at the present union structure and what appears to be an old boy's network and they think...that's completely irrelevant to me.

[silly suffolk]

if the cwu is to crash and burn it will be down to apathy

Yes it will but what has caused this apathy?
It's too easy just to say the members are apathetic so it's all their fault.
The union cannot afford to wait on changes of leadership to change direction,that change must be driven by those already in post,there are enough people involved who realise that change is crucial to drag the reactionaries into the 21st Century but the first thing we must do is stop blaming the members for the way they feel.
They feel that way for a reason and it's nothing to do with economic issues or job insecurity or the newspapers they read.
They feel that way because they are disengaged from the CWU in particular and the trade union movement in general.I don't believe they don't want to be engaged,if they felt that strongly they would probably leave,i just think they look at the present union structure and what appears to be an old boy's network and they think...that's completely irrelevant to me.

for most most royal mail employees the union is an insurance policy if they get in the s##t, and a hope their union will drive up their terms and conditions. unfortunately most people are not politically active. they would rather spend there free time with hobbies and family. who am i to criticize that? but a lot of active union officials do spend an awful lot of their own time in their quest to improve the lot of others. if their actions prove imperfect, their intentions are usually honorable.