Post office raider wins court appeal

[TrueBlueTerrier]

http://www.wigantoday.net/news/local-ne ... _1_4292490" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A THUG given a potentially lifelong sentence for a £35,000 raid on a Wigan post office has been freed on appeal by judges.

Gareth James White, 23, of Clifton, Manchester, was caged indefinitely at Liverpool Crown Court in February 2008 after admitting robbery and possessing a firearm with intent to cause fear of violence.

That sentence, reserved for dangerous offenders, is almost identical to a life term and meant White could have no hope of freedom until the authorities were satisfied he could safely live in the community.

However, Appeal Court judges have now overturned the open-ended sentence and replaced it with a six-year term. That means White will now be released on licence, having served half his new setence.

White was among a trio of raiders who stormed into the post office in Warrington Road, Abram, Wigan in February 2007, terrorising the staff.

One of the gang was carrying a pistol, while another had a knife in his hand. White, however, insisted he was unarmed. Those inside the post office were ordered to lie down and when one victim failed to comply, he was grabbed by the neck and forced to the floor.

The female cashier was made to open the door to the back office at gunpoint. Inside the office the raiders found a safe which contained around £35,000 in cash. None of the money has ever been recovered.

The gang fled the scene in a BMW which was later found abandoned.

[mark hill]

[POSTMAN]

You know something law abiding citizens dont?

[NWpostie]

If you lock all the criminal up for life, the world would be a safer place as they are not in it.

Didn't California have a three strikes and you're out system, commit three felonies of any kind and you get banged up, no parole.

[DGP1]

If you lock all the criminal up for life, the world would be a safer place as they are not in it.

Didn't California have a three strikes and you're out system, commit three felonies of any kind and you get banged up, no parole.

And where would you imprison all these people? Do you favour some sort of Escape from New York situation?

[NWpostie]

If you lock all the criminal up for life, the world would be a safer place as they are not in it.

Didn't California have a three strikes and you're out system, commit three felonies of any kind and you get banged up, no parole.

And where would you imprison all these people? Do you favour some sort of Escape from New York situation?

California built more jails, with falling crime rate there is more resources diverted to more crime prevention compared to crime investigation, just as in the UK the vast majority of crime is usually committed by the same people.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

the vast majority of crime is usually committed by the same people.

[NWpostie]

the vast majority of crime is usually committed by the same people.

I don't think that is relevant to violent crimes, at least Cameron and Clegg didn't go round mugging old ladies, attacking the weak and disabled, raping, and committing acts of murder, torture, paedophilia, robbing shops and post offices with and without weapons or engaging in drugs and gang turf wars using guns,

Politicians may be immoral yet not so violent, you can vote them out or try them in court, neither do they have secret police to arrest you for thought crimes against society, as in Soviet Russia and right wing dictatorship as in some African and Latin American countries.

[fishtank]

Almost every type of violent crime is falling in the UK but perception of violent crime is kept at an artificially high level by certain sections of the media simply because it suits the right wing agenda to have their readers hiding under their beds,dreaming of longer sentences and bringing back hanging.
The most telling survey was that although 66% of people thought that violent crime nationally was rising only 29% thought it was rising in their local area.
That is media driven perception overruling reality.

[NWpostie]

Almost every type of violent crime is falling in the UK but perception of violent crime is kept at an artificially high level by certain sections of the media simply because it suits the right wing agenda to have their readers hiding under their beds,dreaming of longer sentences and bringing back hanging.
The most telling survey was that although 66% of people thought that violent crime nationally was rising only 29% thought it was rising in their local area.
That is media driven perception overruling reality.

Do you have any sources to back that up by any chance ?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Almost every type of violent crime is falling in the UK but perception of violent crime is kept at an artificially high level by certain sections of the media simply because it suits the right wing agenda to have their readers hiding under their beds,dreaming of longer sentences and bringing back hanging.
The most telling survey was that although 66% of people thought that violent crime nationally was rising only 29% thought it was rising in their local area.
That is media driven perception overruling reality.

Do you have any sources to back that up by any chance ?

The difference between perceptions of changes in the national and local crime level
was particularly marked for knife crime (90% of people perceived an increase nationally
compared with 27% locally) and gun crime (81% nationally compared with 13% locally).

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publicatio ... iew=Binary" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

However, the underlying trend was generally consistent with the police recorded
crime series, which showed that violence against the person decreased by four per cent
(comprising a 5% fall in violence with injury, and a 3% fall in violence without injury).

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... sb1210.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[TrueBlueTerrier]

the vast majority of crime is usually committed by the same people.

I don't think that is relevant to violent crimes, at least Cameron and Clegg didn't go round mugging old ladies, attacking the weak and disabled, raping, and committing acts of murder, torture, pedophilia, robbing shops and post offices with and without weapons or engaging in drugs and gang turf wars using guns,

Actually the cartoon was a tongue in cheek way of agreeing with you especially as you did not mention violent crime till this post.

As to our own government mugging old ladies, attacking the weak and disabled, committing acts of murder, torture, engaging in drugs and gang turf wars using guns - sadly I and others would have to disagree with you or least interpret it in a different way.

Mugging old ladies - not actually mugging but a lot of people are up in arms about the changes to pensions which means despite the government saying they increased it this year, a significant number have had their pensions frozen this year and for a number of years into the future.

Attacking the weak and disabled - All I'll say is remember that ATOS, a french software company, is currently assessing disabled people for fitness to work. They are not looking at the history of the individual, but are reporting on tests taken on 1 day and extrapolating that to a lifetime. Some reports suggest that on average 32 people die a week who have been cleared to work by ATOS. http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/investigation ... ng-in.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Committing acts of murder - depends on your political view I suppose, but our Government probably supplied arms to rebel groups in the Arab Spring - and certainly in Libya actively helped the rebels with air power, of course that was to "protect our interests"

Engaging in Drugs - in Afghanistan they are turning a blind eye to poppy growth, supposedly because the farmers can't grow anything else. They are also helping to keep powerful war lords in power, at least those still alive after the Soviet era. During the Soviet era they used these same War Lords to fight the "ruskies", it was seen as coincidental that these War Lords actually fought each other more than the Soviets, and most of the fighting was based around Drug routes and poppy plantations.

Torture - Not actively but the government aided in "Rendition" flights, and helped the Americans interrogate British suspects at Gitmo.

Politicians may be immoral yet not so violent, you can vote them out or try them in court, neither do they have secret police to arrest you for thought crimes against society, as in Soviet Russia and right-wing dictatorship as in some African and Latin American countries.

Actually I tend to think that they are Amoral rather than imoral.

[NWpostie]

the vast majority of crime is usually committed by the same people.

I don't think that is relevant to violent crimes, at least Cameron and Clegg didn't go round mugging old ladies, attacking the weak and disabled, raping, and committing acts of murder, torture, pedophilia, robbing shops and post offices with and without weapons or engaging in drugs and gang turf wars using guns,

Actually the cartoon was a tongue in cheek way of agreeing with you especially as you did not mention violent crime till this post.

As to our own government mugging old ladies, attacking the weak and disabled, committing acts of murder, torture, engaging in drugs and gang turf wars using guns - sadly I and others would have to disagree with you or least interpret it in a different way.

[b]However none of this involves physical violence or threats and intimidation with regards to the Aged, Gang turf wars do happen and the recent case Rhys Jones being a innocent victim of casual shoot out, if there is such a word http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Rhys_Jones" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[/b]

Mugging old ladies - not actually mugging but a lot of people are up in arms about the changes to pensions which means despite the government saying they increased it this year, a significant number have had their pensions frozen this year and for a number of years into the future.
Again no physical violence or intimidation was involved, this is a matter of political process and protest

Attacking the weak and disabled - All I'll say is remember that ATOS, a french software company, is currently assessing disabled people for fitness to work. They are not looking at the history of the individual, but are reporting on tests taken on 1 day and extrapolating that to a lifetime. Some reports suggest that on average 32 people die a week who have been cleared to work by ATOS. http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/investigation ... ng-in.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No violence involved, this is a political process that requires self empowered citizen action

Committing acts of murder - depends on your political view I suppose, but our Government probably supplied arms to rebel groups in the Arab Spring - and certainly in Libya actively helped the rebels with air power, of course that was to "protect our interests"
When I say Murder I am referring to murder in the UK for gain, power, sex, money or just for the hell of it, killing in wars while regrettable is not a matter for the British courts as it has happened outside of our legal jurisdiction, people die in wars, that is war, WW1 WW2 GW1 all were fought for a valid reason, I do however concede that the Afghanistan operation has a tenuous basis, largely due to the 9/11 attack, the Iraq conflict is little basis, yet Soldiers don't pick and choose the wars the Government send them to fight

Engaging in Drugs - in Afghanistan they are turning a blind eye to poppy growth, supposedly because the farmers can't grow anything else. They are also helping to keep powerful war lords in power, at least those still alive after the Soviet era. During the Soviet era they used these same War Lords to fight the "ruskies", it was seen as coincidental that these War Lords actually fought each other more than the Soviets, and most of the fighting was based around Drug routes and poppy plantations.

While we would like to stop the drug trade, we do not have the resources to do so, it is therefore operationally expedient to turn a blind eye, to do otherwise would have the entire population set against you, you should only pick the battles you can win, one battle at a time

Torture - Not actively but the government aided in "Rendition" flights, and helped the Americans interrogate British suspects at Gitmo.

I have always been of the view that if interrogating a terrorist saves British soldiers lives, I am all for it, the Taliban regularly tortures and executes their prisoners then make film of it for YouTube.com, something we don''t do

Politicians may be immoral yet not so violent, you can vote them out or try them in court, neither do they have secret police to arrest you for thought crimes against society, as in Soviet Russia and right-wing dictatorship as in some African and Latin American countries.

Actually I tend to think that they are Amoral rather than imoral.

I am of the view politicians are slippery anyway

it is quite obvious that you are have left leaning in political viewpoints, which may generate a bias on the current Government's record, the Labour government were no saints either they had done thing for political expediency at the expense of the poor, instead of arguing from a political viewpoint, it is perhaps more plausible to argue from a pragmatic viewpoint.

[DGP1]

So again you seem to take the Daily Mail POV, crime is up and we should lock away all criminals in degrading conditions until they rot..............TBH I've never felt safer than what I feel today, I may get attacked but it's only a remote possibility..........of course that could be because we're not shooting and blowing each other up now


I think I've had too much to drink to make a reasonable argument..............still, I'm glad we no longer have the death penalty

[NWpostie]

So again you seem to take the Daily Mail POV, crime is up and we should lock away all criminals in degrading conditions until they rot..............TBH I've never felt safer than what I feel today, I may get attacked but it's only a remote possibility..........of course that could be because we're not shooting and blowing each other up now


I think I've had too much to drink to make a reasonable argument..............still, I'm glad we no longer have the death penalty

The fear of crime is bigger than the actual incidence of crime, I do feel the rights of the victims should be paramount above that of criminals, while some can be redeemed retuning to society as productive citizens, other criminals are beyond redemption and are complete Sociopaths,