Delivery to Neighbour Trial Report

[Cut Off King]

I won't be knocking on any neighbors doors......no extra to my arse

I won't be knocking on anybody's door. Everything will be carded.

I won't be knocking on anybody's door. Everything will be carded.

I'll second that !

So the three of you will be refusing to do the job properly then when its rolled out??

Please enlighten me further as to where P739'ing a packet is wrong and against RM rules, as I understand it, the new scheme puts the FINAL evaluation on the OPG as to whether it is safe to leave packets with neighbours or not.

If YOU want to take the risk of something going wrong... well be my guest. Be assured, it's NOT going to be a MANAGER who takes the blame for a packet that goes missing.

I have seen too many managers turn a blind eye up until the point that they are in the firing line, then blame the OPG for the problem.

Go ahead, take the risk, get away with it for years.........Just prey your LUCKY.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

I can't see how this way of working will be compulsory. For people who don't want overtime, there will be 3-4 days a week were they won't get the time.

its going to be part of the job, you cant just pick and choose which parts you want to comply with, if it takes you over your time then you follow the appropriate procedure but saying its going to take me longer im not going to do the job properly is not really on and you would get in the s**t for it, its like saying am going to be over my time ill not bother delivering the tracked or the large packets thats not for us mere mortals to make a decision on

But how will you know how long your delivery will take ?. Will the customer be in or out ?. How many packets will you have to offload on neighbours ?. I was on P&L today and we brought back about 20 packets, how much extra time would this haven taken to offload ?. Today it could of been 5,10 or 30 packets to offload, there is no way of knowing.

not our problem and not an excuse not to do the job properly and cut off properly, you could have had 50 to off load, so what you only work to your time, if you run out of time its either OT for those that want it or eventually extra hours for part timers

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

so basically lie about it? yeah thats a great idea, why dont we just p729 everything and not bother taking anything out, save a hell of a lot more time, then we can maybe start cutting a few jobs with all the time saved

Really, are you going down this line? How do you know they'll lie? Nobody said about leaving all their packets and just P739ing them............unless I missed how this thread was pointing to

I take all my packets out, I deliver them but it's only now that I know who the friends and family are (after 3 years) so that would be the only houses I would deliver to, RM want us to just throw the packets everywhere so they can cut the hell out of the callers office and save themselves more money and when something goes wrong then it'll be us who get into trouble.

you said they would just find a way round doing it. basically cutting corners is taking genuine hours away from every office, i was saying if we are going to start cutting corners and not do the job properly we should go the whole hog and get loads of hours cut think of the jobs royal mail will be able to get rid of,

[fishtank]

you said they would just find a way round doing it. basically cutting corners is taking genuine hours away from every office, i was saying if we are going to start cutting corners and not do the job properly we should go the whole hog and get loads of hours cut think of the jobs royal mail will be able to get rid of,

You can't take hours away that aren't there,and you can't cut corners that according to RM don't exist.

None of our delivery postmen and women reported any additional time being taken on walks in
conducting their delivery tasks, and this is reflected in no additional cost being incurred at the Trial offices.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

you said they would just find a way round doing it. basically cutting corners is taking genuine hours away from every office, i was saying if we are going to start cutting corners and not do the job properly we should go the whole hog and get loads of hours cut think of the jobs royal mail will be able to get rid of,

You can't take hours away that aren't there,and you can't cut corners that according to RM don't exist.

None of our delivery postmen and women reported any additional time being taken on walks in
conducting their delivery tasks, and this is reflected in no additional cost being incurred at the Trial offices.

doesnt justify not doing the job properly which is what dgp is trying to defend, and not bothering to try a neighbour is cutting corners what ever way you try to spin it

[fishtank]

doesnt justify not doing the job properly which is what dgp is trying to defend, and not bothering to try a neighbour is cutting corners what ever way you try to spin it

The absence of any additional cost in the Trial was supported by the discretionary element of the Delivery to Neighbour Trial process that enabled postmen and women to exercise their judgement about the appropriateness of delivering items to neighbours.

He's advocating using his discretion...he doesn't trust anyone,neither do i,especially management.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

doesnt justify not doing the job properly which is what dgp is trying to defend, and not bothering to try a neighbour is cutting corners what ever way you try to spin it

The absence of any additional cost in the Trial was supported by the discretionary element of the Delivery to Neighbour Trial process that enabled postmen and women to exercise their judgement about the appropriateness of delivering items to neighbours.

He's advocating using his discretion...he doesn't trust anyone,neither do i,especially management.

no he is not advocating using his discretion if you read his post he actually stated

No, they'll just not get people in or people will refuse to take the packets.......simples

if he had said he was using his discretion then i wouldnt have a problem with it, he is advocating making up excuses for not doing the job properly

[skull]

I can't see how this way of working will be compulsory. For people who don't want overtime, there will be 3-4 days a week were they won't get the time.

its going to be part of the job, you cant just pick and choose which parts you want to comply with, if it takes you over your time then you follow the appropriate procedure but saying its going to take me longer im not going to do the job properly is not really on and you would get in the s**t for it, its like saying am going to be over my time ill not bother delivering the tracked or the large packets thats not for us mere mortals to make a decision on

But how will you know how long your delivery will take ?. Will the customer be in or out ?. How many packets will you have to offload on neighbours ?. I was on P&L today and we brought back about 20 packets, how much extra time would this haven taken to offload ?. Today it could of been 5,10 or 30 packets to offload, there is no way of knowing.

not our problem and not an excuse not to do the job properly and cut off properly, you could have had 50 to off load, so what you only work to your time, if you run out of time its either OT for those that want it or eventually extra hours for part timers

How do you cut off properly, you won't have a clue on how much to cut off. You will be guessing the length of a piece of string, even a last loop with 8 packets could vary by 0-20 additional minutes. Packet offloading will be to our discretion, there is no way this way of working can be managed .
At the end of my walk, if I've got the time, I'll try to redeliver/offload packets. If I'm at an addressee's house and a neighbour comes out and offers to take in a packet, I'll offload it. There is no way I will go knocking door to door to offload packets. Our walk durations are already all over the place without putting packet offload into the equation.

I'm off to bed now .

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

I can't see how this way of working will be compulsory. For people who don't want overtime, there will be 3-4 days a week were they won't get the time.

its going to be part of the job, you cant just pick and choose which parts you want to comply with, if it takes you over your time then you follow the appropriate procedure but saying its going to take me longer im not going to do the job properly is not really on and you would get in the s**t for it, its like saying am going to be over my time ill not bother delivering the tracked or the large packets thats not for us mere mortals to make a decision on

But how will you know how long your delivery will take ?. Will the customer be in or out ?. How many packets will you have to offload on neighbours ?. I was on P&L today and we brought back about 20 packets, how much extra time would this haven taken to offload ?. Today it could of been 5,10 or 30 packets to offload, there is no way of knowing.

not our problem and not an excuse not to do the job properly and cut off properly, you could have had 50 to off load, so what you only work to your time, if you run out of time its either OT for those that want it or eventually extra hours for part timers

How do you cut off properly, you won't have a clue on how much to cut off. You will be guessing the length of a piece of string, even a last loop with 8 packets could vary by 0-20 additional minutes. Packet offloading will be to our discretion, there is no way this way of working can be managed .
At the end of my walk, if I've got the time, I'll try and redeliver/offload packets. If I'm at and addressee's house and a neighbour come out and offers to take in a packet, I'll offload it. There is no way I will go knocking door to door to offload packets. Our walk durations are already all over the place without putting packet offload into the equation.

I'm off to bed now .

you are supposed to inform you manager as soon as it becomes apparant you cannot complete in time and let him decide how to manage the situation,

again you are cutting corners to save time, do the job properly its not your worry about how it will work or be managed thats what your manager is paid to worry about

[not me]

I can't see how this way of working will be compulsory. For people who don't want overtime, there will be 3-4 days a week were they won't get the time.

its going to be part of the job, you cant just pick and choose which parts you want to comply with, if it takes you over your time then you follow the appropriate procedure but saying its going to take me longer im not going to do the job properly is not really on and you would get in the s**t for it, its like saying am going to be over my time ill not bother delivering the tracked or the large packets thats not for us mere mortals to make a decision on

But how will you know how long your delivery will take ?. Will the customer be in or out ?. How many packets will you have to offload on neighbours ?. I was on P&L today and we brought back about 20 packets, how much extra time would this haven taken to offload ?. Today it could of been 5,10 or 30 packets to offload, there is no way of knowing.

not our problem and not an excuse not to do the job properly and cut off properly, you could have had 50 to off load, so what you only work to your time, if you run out of time its either OT for those that want it or eventually extra hours for part timers

How do you cut off properly, you won't have a clue on how much to cut off. You will be guessing the length of a piece of string, even a last loop with 8 packets could vary by 0-20 additional minutes. Packet offloading will be to our discretion, there is no way this way of working can be managed .
At the end of my walk, if I've got the time, I'll try and redeliver/offload packets. If I'm at and addressee's house and a neighbour come out and offers to take in a packet, I'll offload it. There is no way I will go knocking door to door to offload packets. Our walk durations are already all over the place without putting packet offload into the equation.

I'm off to bed now .

you are supposed to inform you manager as soon as it becomes apparant you cannot complete in time and let him decide how to manage the situation,

again you are cutting corners to save time, do the job properly its not your worry about how it will work or be managed thats what your manager is paid to worry about

so how long will the packets take?
how many doors wil you be knocking on top of the original recipients door?
how long will that take?

(FYI I'm at a trial office)

[taxi4leighton]

does it really take more time to hand a packet in next door than it does to write out a p739?
its all about "keeping the customer satisfied".
as Simon and Garfunkel once sang

[P13]

does it really take more time to hand a packet in next door than it does to write out a p739?
its all about "keeping the customer satisfied".
as Simon and Garfunkel once sang

You still have to go back an 739 the original door so they know you have left it with a neighbour

[not me]

does it really take more time to hand a packet in next door than it does to write out a p739?
its all about "keeping the customer satisfied".
as Simon and Garfunkel once sang

just next door?
what about the other next door?
then if any of those arent home
you are back to writing the original P739 you were writing originally
given delivery to neighbour is IME simply tagged onto existing duties,where does the time from these computer designed to the second duties com from?

[Limey]

I notice that during the trial, no packet went missing. Any procedure in place for packets that get 'lost' when handed over to a neighbour?

This, i want to know some answers... Anyone?

Some neighbours are dodgy!

[Ozzvaldo]

I suspect that the discretionary element of this nonsense is simply a management arse covering exercise for when, inevitably, there's a balls-up somewhere and blame needs to be apportioned correctly, i.e. onto us. Were Royal Mail to issue an edict to the effect that we MUST leave packets with neighbours, then any problems arising could be laid at the door of the instigators and enforcers of the policy. On the other hand, when the sweet little old lady who always gives you an Everton mint whenever you knock on her door with a parcel turns out to be a kleptomaniac who used to be part of the Kray empire in her youth, then the management will be quite happy to overlook the fact that you don't hold a degree in criminal psychology to support your discretionary decisions as they boot you out of the door.

From my point of view, apart from the people who I've never actually met in the 14 months I've been performing my duty (and there are quite a few), I only know my "customers" as well as could be realistically expected for somebody who has a few passing words every now and then. Is this truly a suitable basis for making decisions as to whether I can trust them to be honest people?... I didn't know 'em from Adam before May 2011. What about the poor old office reserves, who know even less about the inhabitants of any particular duty than the regular holder? Are they to be held to account for their snap judgements when the s**t hits the fan?

We can argue the toss until the cows come home about whether those of us who are not keen to embrace this initiative are a) sensible, b) a big bunch of Nellie wet legs or c) out and out lazy b******s, but I do not like the potential ramifications for us as a collective body. Heads will roll....and they won't be management's.