are posties a bunch of clever-clogs?

[taurus88]

It's probably not the wisest course to explore the level of education of your average postal worker during a financial crisis. It's the very nature of these things that people fall below their "natural level" due to the lack of opportunities elsewhere. I have friends and acquaintances who are qualified beyond degree level, yet are currently unemployed, or else in menial employment. I consider myself to be unusually intellectual, but I was faced with a choice between the Job Centre (a place I had been visiting weekly (perhaps fortnightly, I forget) for an over-long period of time), or working at Royal Mail. A difficult choice, but ultimately the discrepancy between salaries made my choice for me. Frankly, employers are not queuing up to pay me (almost) £10 an hour at present. Especially not for doing a shoddy job; making lots of mistakes, listening to music all day, and generally behaving like a feral child.

Speak for yourself!

I believe he was.

Speaking for you, or for me? I'm not really sure which element of my post "deltaforce" was referring to, so I wouldn't quite know anyway. In all seriousness, I do the job reasonably well, but being a reserve, mistakes are a regular feature of my day.

[fishtank]

A degree will in most cases lead to some sort of middle management non-job.
A middle manager will make around twice what we make which sounds great but outside RM in the big bad world of reality you will be expected to work 60-70hrs a week for that and also take work home with you.
Something the rather cotton-wool wrapped managers in Royal Mail need to think about...no overtime or even TOIL in the majority of the real world once you're salaried.
Would i?....would i f**k.

[TheCobra]

I have a first class degree in Computing.

Worked in an office for 2 years and realised I hated the whole thing, offices, office people/politics, sitting in front of a computer all day getting aches and pains from barely moving, barely speaking. Horrible really.

I'd obviously like to do something a bit better paid, but really postman is a very unique job and I think I'll be doing it for a while. I could never go back to an office based job now, would always need some sort of 'out and about' element to any job I do.

[CORTINA]

We are obviously not that clever or we would be not working in this RM mess...

An RM mess that we have allowed RM to dictacte to us over the past 5 years.... with little help from the union or TUC.

Now those above us are clever...they are benefiting from the mess and stress we go through at our expense.

Now how clever are we all collectively really...... when it matters.

[newtimes]

Now how clever are we all collectively really...... when it matters.

spot on CORTINA

[Tman]

A degree will in most cases lead to some sort of middle management non-job.
A middle manager will make around twice what we make which sounds great but outside RM in the big bad world of reality you will be expected to work 60-70hrs a week for that and also take work home with you.
Something the rather cotton-wool wrapped managers in Royal Mail need to think about...no overtime or even TOIL in the majority of the real world once you're salaried.

Nothing like a bit of over-generalisation Fishy. Sounds like the flawed reasoning every pub-dummy uses to justify his (lack of) personal achievement. Have you considered that many/most degree holders are not considered to be "management" in any shape or form?

[taurus88]

What is personal achievement, though? A nice house in suburbia with a respectable job? "I could have been somebody" is a throwaway line, but let's face it, most people are nobodies. That's why in the modern world, people don't desire to be rich. They want to be famous. The two tend to go hand-in-hand, but 99.9% of people are underwhelmed by this experience we call life and they want an easy life, clever clogs or not. I would be no more happy personally earning thrice as much, with a trophy wife on my arm, a nice house, some dysfunctional children in tow. Personal aspiration varies from one to another. The problem is we're getting into vast generalisations of every nuance of this topic. I will tell you, however, that many a successful man is significantly taller than average. Coincidence?

For what it's worth, I do not have a degree and my level of education is modest, at best. And yet I am considered by every measure to be of (significantly) above average intelligence. Does any of that even matter? I don't think so. Desire, drive, they're what matter. The truly successful individuals have nothing more going for them than you or I. They simply push themselves, not to their limits, but beyond them. Some people believe the sky is the limit. Others believe science is the limit. Dreamers believe there are no limits. Henry Ford believed in a V8 engine - nobody else believed it was even possible. OF COURSE, ONE SHOULD MAKE THE DISTINCTION HERE THAT MANAGEMENT TYPES ARE NOT DREAMERS. They are almost without exception witless dullards who have brown-nosed their way to success. They lack the perspicacity to actually formulate a plan in times of crisis.

[fishtank]

Sounds like the flawed reasoning every pub-dummy uses to justify his (lack of) personal achievement.

You will need to quantify personal achievement before i could work out if having a degree is relevant or not.

Have you considered that many/most degree holders are not considered to be "management" in any shape or form?

You have a point,many of them are fast food technicians or lavatory hygiene engineers but i did say "in most cases" and "lead to".

[Tman]

You will need to quantify personal achievement before i could work out if having a degree is relevant or not.

I'm sure I don't really have to Fishy (although quite how I could "quantify" some one else's "personal achievements" is beyond me) but playing the old obtuse card is a little dog-eared now.

You have a point,many of them are fast food technicians or lavatory hygiene engineers but i did say "in most cases" and "lead to".

Ah yes,another of the standard pub-dummy ripostes re how "those graduates are all working in MacDs or cleaning or MC bogs". Nice one Fishy.

[fishtank]

Thank you for reinforcing the point about "personal achievements" Tman.
Is pub-dummy your new catchphrase?
I like it.

[Tman]

If you like it then good for you. I was hoping for a somewhat more substantial explanation for your disparaging view of the educational degree path, but I suppose you won't change your usual "debating" tactic after this amount of time..

[fishtank]

If you like it then good for you. I was hoping for a somewhat more substantial explanation for your disparaging view of the educational degree path, but I suppose you won't change your usual "debating" tactic after this amount of time..

I don't have a disparaging view of the educational degree path though Tman,just an opinion gathered through experience that it isn't the "golden ticket" to "personal achievement" that some proclaim it to be.
Neither do i think that a more vocational career path or even no discernible career path at all is necessarily a sign of failure to achieve anything.
You continue to wear your prejudices like badges Tman.
Ten thumbed,pub-dummy Fishy don't need no stinking badges.

[Tman]

I don't have a disparaging view of the educational degree path though Tman,just an opinion gathered through experience that it isn't the "golden ticket" to "personal achievement" that some proclaim it to be.

No? So what's this then? -

A degree will in most cases lead to some sort of middle management non-job.
A middle manager will make around twice what we make which sounds great but outside RM in the big bad world of reality you will be expected to work 60-70hrs a week for that and also take work home with you.
Something the rather cotton-wool wrapped managers in Royal Mail need to think about...no overtime or even TOIL in the majority of the real world once you're salaried.

You continue to wear your prejudices like badges Tman.

That old "personal level" again Fishy...

Ten thumbed,pub-dummy Fishy don't need no stinking badges.

The same old chip-on-the-shoulder "poor little me" inverted snobbery. Isn't this where you originally came in?

[POSTMAN]

Hmmm,if i didn't know better Tman I would think you come on here looking for 'Fishy' to post so you can jump on him.

[fishtank]

Hmmm,if i didn't know better Tman I would think you come on here looking for 'Fishy' to post so you can jump on him.

I'm sure Tman has plenty of better things to occupy his valuable time than worry about old "Fishy".
If he want's to though he can email me at pub-dummy@royalmail.com