under estimating handbacks=wilful delay?

[daveyeff]

They could make a case for abandonment of duty or unauthorised absence, but certainly not wilful delay.

well he had finished his duty so i dont see how they could use that

You've already said that they were dropped off 15 minutes before their finish time. They are not paid to do a duty, they are paid to perform any reasonable instruction for which they have been trained up to their allotted finish time. By leaving before that time they have failed to be available for any work within their allotted time and as such have either abandoned or become absent without authorisation.

up until a month ago the office had a local agreement in place, that it was job and finish on a saturday. thats now knocked on the head because they want the lapsing done on a saturday. if this dom decides to charge this lad because he failed to make himself available for work for his last 10 mins then thats what he should be charging him with, not wilful delay, i dont think that offence would carry a dismissal outcome. incidentally, there are lads who do not go back to the office week in week out once they,ve finished their duty, they give the driver their pda etc and get dropped off.

[fishtank]

You've already said that they were dropped off 15 minutes before their finish time. They are not paid to do a duty, they are paid to perform any reasonable instruction for which they have been trained up to their allotted finish time. By leaving before that time they have failed to be available for any work within their allotted time and as such have either abandoned or become absent without authorisation.

You couldn't make that stick unless it was applied across the whole office and without even knowing his office i know it won't be because it never is.
Does anyone go home early in your office Himaggen?
Surely everyone who's ever gone home early since the introduction of P&M2007 is also guilty of "abandonment of duty".
That's a s**t load of people....

There is no merit in this case if all the facts we have are correct,the charge is wrong and suspension is unwarranted....it's cack-handed and way over the top.
It's simply a knobend manager trying his hand at a little B&H to pressure members into lapsing.
The fact that you are trying to justify it surprises me.

[Lincox]

I agree Fish. If they had charged this lad with abandonment, then they would have had to charge the whole office. Until they have a clocking in and out machine, they would never have sufficient and plausible evidence to make this stick if it went to an ET.

[Pokemon Postmon]

Do you have to return to the office? I was under the impression that pouching off at the end of your delivery was still in the current agreement. I could be wrong but I still do it.

[Himaggen]

The fact that you are trying to justify it surprises me.

I'm not justifying it at all, I agree with the consensus, my point was only that wilful delay would be the least correct charge to bring.

[Militantdave]

you are supposed to be back at the office 15 minutes before your duty end anyway , to do the rest of your job..ie fill in walk logs , deal with any refused , missorted , or undeliverables .

should he have gone to the station ? no
is that wilful delay ? no

get off this easy...so get the guy to bang in a grievance now...as he is on paid suspension ,he can have a little holiday safe in the knoweledge it will be dropped quicker than kate price's knickers . but whilst a grievance is looked into( b&h )any discipline case cannot proceed

[dvbuk55]

The easiest way to manage this conundrum is to make everyone return to the depot after their duty, we have done this since the revisions of two years ago.

[daveyeff]

he got his reply today, it was just the' minutes' from the factfinder, by the by he(the dom), has since sent out 4 letters to other posties on similar charges. its going to be an interesting week. let you,s know.

[blackadder]

do other offices round you have this practice of coming back ?? know round mine its each to there own. be a lot better if every office was the same but hey ho. as for wilful delay, it covers a multitude of sins like gross misconduct. he didnt come back to sort the mail. to me and you that aint wilful delay but to the management hes delayed the mail by not sorting it

[daveyeff]

do other offices round you have this practice of coming back ?? know round mine its each to there own. be a lot better if every office was the same but hey ho. as for wilful delay, it covers a multitude of sins like gross misconduct. he didnt come back to sort the mail. to me and you that aint wilful delay but to the management hes delayed the mail by not sorting it

there was no mail to sort,,,its a clear office policy. it had all gone. all there was left to do was kill offs, and kill offs is dead mail so how can he apply wilful delay?? it only applies to live mail.

[daveyeff]

the word is that the other lads (currently 3) have all had factfinding letters regarding wilful delay. they are presently NOT suspended. (why is the 1st lad then??). apparently the dom has ''cctv footage'' of them leaving the premises 10 mins early. this has been brought about because they handed back their lapsing. the dom is off the rest of the week and 2 of the ''charged'' are off as well, one with stress related sick, the other, his rostered off week. the first lad who is the initial subject of this thread remains on paid suspension. the other lad is still at work.,,,,,i said it would get interesting.

[daveyeff]

the suspended lad got his rejjie letter today,,,,,the doms passed it up,,what a surprise. obviously looking to have him sacked and wipe out another 40 hours and his livelyhood at the same time. there is now a total of 7 cases of wilful delay ongoing. he,s lost the frigging plot this bloke.

[parcelboy]

the suspended lad got his rejjie letter today,,,,,the doms passed it up,,what a surprise. obviously looking to have him sacked and wipe out another 40 hours and his livelyhood at the same time. there is now a total of 7 cases of wilful delay ongoing. he,s lost the frigging plot this bloke.

would luv to know what area of the country where this is going on .A similar sort of thing happened to me over 2 years ago they eventually moved all management involved. They are so corrupt its unbelievable.I always said the DOM had lost the plot or they get paid a lot more BONUS than we think for reducing hours.I left office 10 mins early during the nice weather of Jan 2010 having received a text from my wife asking if i could take her to see her terminally ill Mother.Needless to say i was charged with WILFUL DELAY .The weather the worst in 30 years ,and the fact my mother in law was dying was not sufficient mitigation (she passed away)god rest her 4 days later.And the appeals manager claimed it was convenient i had somewhere to be and that i had pre arranged it .How distasteful and it still is and if they think its over it never will be untill justice is done.

[Lincox]

Did you have to take it to an ET parcelboy?

[daveyeff]

jeesus parcelboy, that has knocked me sick. that some jumped up manager can come out with absolute garbage without batting an eyelid about anyones circumstances. he should be stabbed up the ring with a broken bottle for even suggesting it. shows you what kind of people we have for managers nowadays. total scum.