EQUALITY/DDA

[fng]

I must say I agree with ZX on this one. The 4 walks are deemed to be suitable. Of those 4 walks you are going to get offered at least one.
The question is, do you find them suitable to match your needs for your disability ie stairs, hills....... etc.
The question isn't wether an "able bodied" person can complete on time or even if you can complete on time, that is a whole different issue and is covered by doing what you are paid to do, up until the time you are paid to do it, and then cutting off or claim OT. That applies to all of us.

Regardless of wether you have been asked your needs or not, are all the 4 walks suitable ?

[fishtank]

The 4 walks are deemed to be suitable.

By who?
The rep and the manager?
Which one is the doctor?
Having no input from the person with the disability is not only pointless it's contrary to all of the guidance given to RM managers and also contrary to all of the guidance given to reps by the CWU.
So whose idea was it to make the rules up as they go along?

You don't get any "choice" when it comes to a reasonably adjusted duty other than all three parties sit down and identify a duty that can be adjusted,discuss and agree those adjustments and ring fence the duty.
That is how it's supposed to be done.

[fng]

The "Doctor" is atos (i know that atos is not a doctor ) they have assed the needs and RM along with all the other companies that use atos need to have a standardised system of assesment, now you know as well as I know the short comings of atos and the need to asses individuals as individuals and not by "a condition" they may have.

But the question still remains, does the person in question, think any of the 4 walks are suitable on medical grounds or not? That is where the consultation comes in , or is it picking a fight for the sake of picking a fight or as mentioned by someonelse, trying to keep hold of a duty.

P.S. I agree with fishtanks summary of how it should be done, however in the case where a different system has been used as in this case surley it is easy enough for the person involved to look at the 4 duties and see if they are suitable ?

[General Mannerheim]

It says in the attendance procedure Appendix B: Which is admittedly about Rehab but equally applies.
The approach will be supportive and caring. making full use of advisory services,management expertise (DR Kildare )and the nominated union representative for each area,working towards regaining the individual's full potential thereby benefititing the individual and the business.The advisory services open to be consulted will incluse the `in house` Employee Health Service together with the Disability Advice Centre,in addition to external specialist organisations.

Have they in this case asked the OP for his input to as what would constitute a reasonable adjustment...have they feck.
Have they carried out a risk assessment...probably not.
Have they even assessed him at the work area he will be working in? Doubtful.
Have they asked his doctor or specialist..no, because they have based there decision on a telephone appointment off Atos.
The need to make reasonable adjustments ....CAN BE AN ON GOING ONE.So even if he did do one of these 4 duties he is duty bound to pick he could ask them to make further adjustments.
Will they after he picks one of these wonderful 4 duties then be reviewed 4 weeks after by Atos with a performance report from his line manager with advice to maintain or reduce activities and also give a starting time for the next review...will they feck.
As for him trying to hold onto a duty...well if the OP is already carrying out a duty that he can do then why is there a need even for his duty be altered or for him to be removed off it?...could it be because the manager has said it's not suitable...well what a surprise.

[cityfc]

It says in the attendance procedure Appendix B: Which is admittedly about Rehab but equally applies.
The approach will be supportive and caring. making full use of advisory services,management expertise (DR Kildare )and the nominated union representative for each area,working towards regaining the individual's full potential thereby benefititing the individual and the business.The advisory services open to be consulted will incluse the `in house` Employee Health Service together with the Disability Advice Centre,in addition to external specialist organisations.

Have they in this case asked the OP for his input to as what would constitute a reasonable adjustment...have they feck.
Have they carried out a risk assessment...probably not.
Have they even assessed him at the work area he will be working in? Doubtful.
Have they asked his doctor or specialist..no, because they have based there decision on a telephone appointment off Atos.
The need to make reasonable adjustments ....CAN BE AN ON GOING ONE.So even if he did do one of these 4 duties he is duty bound to pick he could ask them to make further adjustments.
Will they after he picks one of these wonderful 4 duties then be reviewed 4 weeks after by Atos with a performance report from his line manager with advice to maintain or reduce activities and also give a starting time for the next review...will they feck.
As for him trying to hold onto a duty...well if the OP is already carrying out a duty that he can do then why is there a need even for his duty be altered or for him to be removed off it?...could it be because the manager has said it's not suitable...well what a surprise.

Absolutely spot on in all respects

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Question still though, are the 4 duties medically unsuitable for you, not just they can't be done in time is there a medical reason you can't do them, as it has a bearing as all the dom needs to do is sit you down and discuss them with you and if they are all suitable then you are back at square one without much chance of comeback

[fishtank]

Question still though, are the 4 duties medically unsuitable for you, not just they can't be done in time is there a medical reason you can't do them, as it has a bearing as all the dom needs to do is sit you down and discuss them with you and if they are all suitable then you are back at square one without much chance of comeback

And if the OP decides that all 4 duties are unsuitable what then?
Since the rep and manager have already decided they are suitable he isn't going to get much help or even a fair hearing from that direction is he?
He has been boxed into a corner and more or less forced to pick one of these duties whether they are suitable or not by a manager,which isn't surprising and a rep which is quite frankly disgusting.
It should have been a joint process,it wasn't so really it was a waste of the manager's,the rep's but most importantly the member's time.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Question still though, are the 4 duties medically unsuitable for you, not just they can't be done in time is there a medical reason you can't do them, as it has a bearing as all the dom needs to do is sit you down and discuss them with you and if they are all suitable then you are back at square one without much chance of comeback

And if the OP decides that all 4 duties are unsuitable what then?
Since the rep and manager have already decided they are suitable he isn't going to get much help or even a fair hearing from that direction is he?
He has been boxed into a corner and more or less forced to pick one of these duties whether they are suitable or not by a manager,which isn't surprising and a rep which is quite frankly disgusting.
It should have been a joint process,it wasn't so really it was a waste of the manager's,the rep's but most importantly the member's time.

If you read my first post I agree with you on that and emphasise about whether the 4 duties are actually suitable, my point is specifically excluding that fact, the fact that they are offering him 4 duties instead of one is not in itself wrong, just they are doing more than they need to, they only need to design 1 duty for him and are going a step further and designing 4, then putting the 4 duties up for signing thus preserving seniority to a degree and accommodating equality act. But ONLY if the duties are in fact suitable and I did mention a couple of time,

[fishtank]

I don't think any designing went on zx.
I think they have just put 4 duties into a pot,decided between themselves they are suitable and told him he will get whatever's left after the others have had a pick.

[POSTMAN]

They are saying any 1 of the 4 are suitable

So going by this,all 4 have the same DDA problem?

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

I don't think any designing went on zx.
I think they have just put 4 duties into a pot,decided between themselves they are suitable and told him he will get whatever's left after the others have had a pick.

but my point is the OP still has not said any of these duties are not medically suitable for x reason, yes i agree they should have talked to him in the first place, my point is that if they had and these 4 duties were suitable then the op doesnt really have much to argue on as they have exceeded the expectations of building one duty for him they would have made four for him,

from what the op has stated he has his duty and he doesnt want to change apart from taking a bit off of it, the only reason he doesnt want any of the other four duties according to him at the moment is because other people cant complete them in their time not anything to do with his disability, he hasnt turned round and said they are medically unsuitable which if they are not suitable then its a different ball game

[toastie]

I have a dispute with my manager and rep over my disablement.
I believe they have to sit down and agree a duty with myself,taking into account my disability and atos report,then ringfence that duty.
They are saying there are 4 duties suitable, and seniority pick then when it gets to the last duty that is then ringfenced.
I am quoting Business Transformation 2010.
Who is correct, and if I am correct,what is my next option if they are not following the 2010 Agreement.

Why are 'they' saying there are 4 duties suitable? only you can decide what is 'suitable' for your condition and what reasonable adjustments need to be made.
I am going through this at the moment. after 18months of not getting reasonable adjusments to delivery as recomended by atos i am now off sick again, and discover (thanks to cwu) that they 'have' to find me a permanent delivery and make reasonable adjustments to it, agree them with me and union rep and then ringfence it for just me. We are going through the process atm but I could have chosen any delivery in the office and make reasonable adjustments to it if I was so inclined, and they would have had to consider it, because osteoarthritis is covered by DDA. Good luck

[toastie]

The 4 walks are deemed to be suitable.

By who?
The rep and the manager?
Which one is the doctor?
Having no input from the person with the disability is not only pointless it's contrary to all of the guidance given to RM managers and also contrary to all of the guidance given to reps by the CWU.
So whose idea was it to make the rules up as they go along?

You don't get any "choice" when it comes to a reasonably adjusted duty other than all three parties sit down and identify a duty that can be adjusted,discuss and agree those adjustments and ring fence the duty.
That is how it's supposed to be done.

Listen to Fish tank - he's right

[cityfc]

I don't think any designing went on zx.
I think they have just put 4 duties into a pot,decided between themselves they are suitable and told him he will get whatever's left after the others have had a pick.

but my point is the OP still has not said any of these duties are not medically suitable for x reason, yes i agree they should have talked to him in the first place, my point is that if they had and these 4 duties were suitable then the op doesnt really have much to argue on as they have exceeded the expectations of building one duty for him they would have made four for him,

from what the op has stated he has his duty and he doesnt want to change apart from taking a bit off of it, the only reason he doesnt want any of the other four duties according to him at the moment is because other people cant complete them in their time not anything to do with his disability, he hasnt turned round and said they are medically unsuitable which if they are not suitable then its a different ball game

To answer that question,none of them are suitable as they are at present,hence the reason I want to sit down and sort this with the manager and the rep,as per the national agreement 2010.
As I have already stated the rep and the manager have decided between themselves these 4 duties, with NO input from myself.

[cityfc]

I have a dispute with my manager and rep over my disablement.
I believe they have to sit down and agree a duty with myself,taking into account my disability and atos report,then ringfence that duty.
They are saying there are 4 duties suitable, and seniority pick then when it gets to the last duty that is then ringfenced.
I am quoting Business Transformation 2010.
Who is correct, and if I am correct,what is my next option if they are not following the 2010 Agreement.

Why are 'they' saying there are 4 duties suitable? only you can decide what is 'suitable' for your condition and what reasonable adjustments need to be made.
I am going through this at the moment. after 18months of not getting reasonable adjusments to delivery as recomended by atos i am now off sick again, and discover (thanks to cwu) that they 'have' to find me a permanent delivery and make reasonable adjustments to it, agree them with me and union rep and then ringfence it for just me. We are going through the process atm but I could have chosen any delivery in the office and make reasonable adjustments to it if I was so inclined, and they would have had to consider it, because osteoarthritis is covered by DDA. Good luck

Exactly what I require,but at present they want to make the choices, with no input from myself,how can they decide if they are suitable,they cant.