Oh dear......

[fishtank]

Fishtank, good point, didn't think about it that way! However, couldn't the signature be regarded as evidence of delivery (as in the item has reached its intended destination) rather than being a receipt signed for by the person it is addressed to? After all, it isn't always the person on the address label who signs for the item is it? Also,if the addressee is receiving something they have ordered and paid for then aren't they actually the customer? I'm interested in this because I have had people say that if the item is postable would I mind signing for it on their behalf?

Bottom line is then, if someone has asked you to do this and you do - could you be liable to a 'charge' of gross misconduct? Is the risk too great to take the chance of helping people out or should we be totally black and white about it and slip everything?

As with all of these "favour" situations it's only a problem when something goes wrong.
When something goes wrong in this case you will be left with a recipient who for whatever reason,denies receiving the item.
It could be fraud on their part or someone else at the property or even a genuine mistake.
What you are then left with is your signature on an item that did not reach it's destination.
That in the eyes of our security branch will look like theft on your part.
That is not only gross misconduct...it's a criminal offence.

[Lincox]

I agree with everything you have said Fish, but would a criminal put his name to an illegality. I would have thought that even our investigation service would need a lot more evidence of theft than a postperson signing for something they have delivered and then not actually delivering it. But anyone doing this is playing with fire, and for the sake of a minute to fill out a 739 it aint worth the risk.

[fishtank]

I agree with everything you have said Fish, but would a criminal put his name to an illegality. I would have thought that even our investigation service would need a lot more evidence of theft than a postperson signing for something they have delivered and then not actually delivering it. But anyone doing this is playing with fire, and for the sake of a minute to fill out a 739 it aint worth the risk.

Yes they would need more evidence and it's unlikely to be progressed as theft but you're still in the middle of a shitstorm of your own making and all you can do is admit that you broke the rules to do someone a favour...and that someone is 99% likely to say they never told you to do anything.
If you hung onto your job at all it would be a result.

If people don't rate their job that highly they should jack it in and let someone else have it.

[POSTMAN]

A postman who signed for a parcel on behalf of a frail pensioner lost his job after she rang Royal Mail bosses to say thank you.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z0dti8jJ7y" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[chunk]

Any report you provide will be treated in strict confidence.

anonymity for the customer while they stick in the knife.

[Zootsuit]

If people don't rate their job that highly they should jack it in and let someone else have it.

Not sure what this means, I would have thought someone being considerate and saving people the hassle of a trip to collect an item might be interpreted as someone rating their job highly in a public spirited way (rather than being lazy by not writing a slip).

Having said that, it's obviously not worth stepping out of the procedural boundaries, however rigid they might seem to be. I guess you could actually look at them as being for our protection. Seems a bit sad really, be nice if there was more trust but evidently the message seems to be trust no one. I hope a couple of people I know who occasionally deliver recorded items without getting a signature from anyone at all read this, looks like a fast track route to the job centre!

[fishtank]

If people don't rate their job that highly they should jack it in and let someone else have it.

Not sure what this means, I would have thought someone being considerate and saving people the hassle of a trip to collect an item might be interpreted as someone rating their job highly in a public spirited way (rather than being lazy by not writing a slip).

It wasn't meant as a personal dig but all it means is that someone risking their job over such a petty thing would in my opinion show that they don't particularly value their employment status that highly.
If you read these boards you will find that management seem to be more than willing to use the weakest of excuses in an attempt to dismiss employees....why hand them the ammunition?

As for the tired excuse of being considerate and trying to save people a trip to collect...it just doesn't wash with me.I've been in the job a long time and seen many cases of doorstepping and fake signing,i've even had to represent a few and in 99% of those cases the only person they were trying to save some hassle was themselves.

[Izzy]

Well we all know that recordeds are not meant for valuable or urgent items. They are meant for things where the customer (the SENDER) wants a paper trail proving delivery, plus date of delivery. Traditionally recordeds were things you didn't want to receive (from courts, landlords, childrens' reporter, debt collectors) so you have to give the recipient the chance to refuse it. Nowadays it's used more to prove delivery of low value items paid for by paypal, but the rules are still the same.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Well we all know that recordeds are not meant for valuable or urgent items. They are meant for things where the customer (the SENDER) wants a paper trail proving delivery, plus date of delivery. Traditionally recordeds were things you didn't want to receive (from courts, landlords, childrens' reporter, debt collectors) so you have to give the recipient the chance to refuse it. Nowadays it's used more to prove delivery of low value items paid for by paypal, but the rules are still the same.

Its meant to be but there are a few posts on RMC that prove people go for the cheapest not best option, and hope for the best:

A for instance from only a few days ago.

Up to this date since moving to Aldershot I have also had 2 valuable items posted to me through Recorded Signed For go missing without a trace.

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... ed#p491390" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Zootsuit]

fishtank said

As for the tired excuse of being considerate and trying to save people a trip to collect...it just doesn't wash with me.I've been in the job a long time and seen many cases of doorstepping and fake signing,i've even had to represent a few and in 99% of those cases the only person they were trying to save some hassle was themselves.

Ouch! I haven't been doing this nearly long enough! I HONESTLY thought that we should help as much as possible to make peoples lives easier if we could (in the same way that I open doors for people, let other drivers out of side streets, help blind people cross the road, you get the picture). In a way I hope I don't have to gain the kind of experience to make me as cynical as fishtank appears to be. Having said that I respect that kind of experience and I am going to learn from it.

By the book from me from now on, if for the only reason that I would hate to give the impression that I was doing anything shonky, I can't help feeling that this management attitude of mistrust in their OPGs must reflect their own shortcomings, or maybe they too have seen the kind of stuff fishtank talks about too often to believe they can actually trust people. Sad really.

Thanks for the wake up call fishtank. If for no other reason doing everything by the book lets you get home without any nagging doubts at the back of your mind!

[fishtank]

Again it wasn't aimed at you MH.
It's not your tired excuse because you're still new to the job and i can understand the feeling that you may be helping your customers by bending the rules slightly but it really is a time bomb simply because the job is repetitive,"helping" or cutting corners becomes habitual and the law of averages will eventually catch up with you.

As for the cynicism,it's more human nature.
While the ethos of job&finish still exists within the company most members will attempt to find ways to finish that job as quickly as possible.if that means bending the rules they will,if an excuse like "helping the customer" can be used in an attempt to justify that...even better.

[Postman Plodd]

Had 3 recorded cards for the same address today, arrives to a sign on the door to the effect 'please pop next door and the neighbour will sign for them'. Whilst it was obvious it was for somebody's birthday withsomething valuable within each recorded card, they were still 739'd and the neighbour remained untroubled by me.
Pity they'll have to travel into town tomorrow to pick them up but tough.

[taptap]

If people order stuff and cant be bothered to be in, when packets that are far to big for there letter boxes, that I try and deliver then they all get 739 even those love film dvds if they dont fit in there letter boxes then 739. No aggrements no "Oh just pop it in the porch" ,no 739 everything. I get moaned at by the locker for bringing too many packets back.??..I have even picked up a box drop by the van driver and 739 that.

[crazyshrew]

I have even picked up a box drop by the van driver and 739 that.

I've had to do that, although just the ones in clear view.

although It turns out that there aren't any prizes for bringing back more that you started with!

[Mr Rush]

even those love film dvds if they dont fit in there letter boxes then 739

Ah, one of my favourite things to send back Not very practical to have a Victorian era letterbox these days.