breaks between overtime and nomal shift?

[Indy]

both, o/t- mail centre, duty- delivery office

lucky b'stard! Need the money but sod all O/T anywhere here!

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Oh keith if you had actually bothered to read the agreement that sets out that policy, you would realise there's a whole load more information that tells you that its actually ok to work without 11 hour break or 24 hour weekly rest, just think you should actually get your facts right before you give poor advice without knowing all the details

here we go

result to insults if unsure on a reply or if anyone has a differenence of opinion to your own
so much for a healthy debate for the benefit of all

please tell me where, and in what royal mail agreement it states the policy you mention to confirm your argument/reasoning

that is in black and white cold hard print

i am talking of royal mail policy, not anything else

erm the Way Forward agreement, Setcion 7 Working Time Regulations but then you should know that being a rep and also having the agreement in front of you

[keithposty]

it is section 7 but you still have not answered my question

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

it is section 7 but you still have not answered my question

what question? i have told you where the information is

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

you still have not answered my questions though through the insults

please quote the relevant chapters then on the way forward agreement as i have it in front of me to back up your claims

my i ask are you a rep, staff member/manager,/ a failed postman who just sits inside all day as you never have anything constructive to say

i withdraw being a rep as it is obvious you have not had any diversity traning so either a manager or a want to be manager/failed postman

insults aside

chapter and verse please

STILL WAITING

oh and going to quote something else for you, Forum Rules:

Just because someone has a different viewpoint or political position to you, it does not mean that they are a 'Manager' or a 'Union fanatic', any posts making such assumptions or generalisations will be pulled or amended and the poster warned. This also applies to posts that are not aimed at individuals but at groups.

[keithposty]

right then

i stated that the royal mail policy was that royal mail employees were governed by an 11 hour break between duties

i stated that royal mail policy stipulated a 24 hour break once a week

i stated that royal mail policy was governed by the 48 hour max working week unless you did the opt out, then it was up to 70 hours a week over a 17 week period

i said i confirmed this with the royal mail safety director

you then stated where in the working time directive this was stated and that royal mail employees can ignore this and work in excess

i stated that that royal mail observed the working time directive but IMPOSED its own policy in conjunction with royal mail

this is via the way forward agreement so

please tell me in the way forward agreement that the above is not royal mail policy and that employees can ignore the agreement

[keithposty]

quote

Just because someone has a different viewpoint or political position to you, it does not mean that they are a 'Manager' or a 'Union fanatic', any posts making such assumptions or generalisations will be pulled or amended and the poster warned. This also applies to posts that are not aimed at individuals but at groups in regards this statement

i respect peoples different views, i would not be a rep if that was the case

what i do not expect is a form of bullying by posters aimed at another which i consider vexatious in nature

replies can be done in a civilised and curtious manner

i consider your replies to be anything but

good manners cost nothing

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

right then

i stated that the royal mail policy was that royal mail employees were governed by an 11 hour break between duties

i stated that royal mail policy stipulated a 24 hour break once a week

i stated that royal mail policy was governed by the 48 hour max working week unless you did the opt out, then it was up to 70 hours a week over a 17 week period

i said i confirmed this with the royal mail safety director

you then stated where in the working time directive this was stated and that royal mail employees can ignore this and work in excess

i stated that that royal mail observed the working time directive but IMPOSED its own policy in conjunction with royal mail

this is via the way forward agreement so

please tell me in the way forward agreement that the above is not royal mail policy and that employees can ignore the agreement

so i take it you did not bother to read the section i said contained the information even after i quoted the relevant section, ok

7. Procedure where individuals work in excess of the agreed limits

This agreement places an obligation on both individuals, their line managers and the Union to take all reasonable steps to ensure that the limits are adhered to. In particular the daily rest should not be less than 9 hours. However, there will be occasions when the limits are broken and the action below will need to be taken. When this happens joint local discussions will take place to identify the reasons and prevent a recurrence

so royal mails policy is actually 9 hours and the acknowledge tbere will be occasions when even these limits will be broken, far cry from a mandatory 11 hour break, also the word "should" is used a lot very different from "must"

[keithposty]

QUOTE

This agreement places an obligation on both individuals, their line managers and the Union to take all reasonable steps to ensure that the limits are adhered

SO THEIR IS NO AUTOIMATIC RIGHT FOR EMPLOYEES TO SYSTEMATICALLY BREACH THE WAY FORWARD AGREEMENT IF THEY WISHED ON THE BREAKS AND WORKING TIMES

as stated

the working time directive allows for a varience

royal mails own agreement (way forward) interprets the legislation (working time directive) by its own agreement and staff have to abide by it

joe bloggs company may be different for wich i do not care in implementing their own take on the working time directive but we use national agreements through the IR framework

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

QUOTE

This agreement places an obligation on both individuals, their line managers and the Union to take all reasonable steps to ensure that the limits are adhered

SO THEIR IS NO AUTOIMATIC RIGHT FOR EMPLOYEES TO SYSTEMATICALLY BREACH THE WAY FORWARD AGREEMENT IF THEY WISHED ON THE BREAKS AND WORKING TIMES

as stated

the working time directive allows for a varience

royal mails own agreement (way forward) interprets the legislation (working time directive) by its own agreement and staff have to abide by it

joe bloggs company may be different for wich i do not care in implementing their own take on the working time directive but we use national agreements through the IR framework

Your missing the point keith, its not a breach of the way forward agreement, the way forward agreement allows it to happen

[keithposty]

lets finally crack this

may i ask how the agreement allows it

take your statement about the 11 hour break not so and it is a nine hour break

this is from the way forward agreement

it is quite clear

From week commencing 6th October 2003 the minimum daily break will be 11 hours.

6.3 Weekly RestFrom week commencing 2nd October 2000 employees will have at least either one 24 hour uninterrupted break from work each week or one 48 hour break each fortnight.


i am trying to get my head around how the agreement allows it, the caveats seem pretty clear to me

if i am wrong i will hold my hands up but thats the way i am interpreting the agreement

[fishtank]

Keith can we just leave this?
The facts are the facts and in the 12 years since the Way Forward "arrived" the rules on breaks and "down time" have been blatantly ignored by both sides and when it is both sides there is absolutely nothing anyone can do about it because there is no "break police" to smash down the manager's door.
The Working Time Directive which a lot of the breaks section of the Way Forward is built around is about as much use as the instructions for an IKEA flatpack coffee table.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

lets finally crack this

may i ask how the agreement allows it

take your statement about the 11 hour break not so and it is a nine hour break

this is from the way forward agreement

it is quite clear

From week commencing 6th October 2003 the minimum daily break will be 11 hours.

6.3 Weekly RestFrom week commencing 2nd October 2000 employees will have at least either one 24 hour uninterrupted break from work each week or one 48 hour break each fortnight.


i am trying to get my head around how the agreement allows it, the caveats seem pretty clear to me

if i am wrong i will hold my hands up but thats the way i am interpreting the agreement

Section 6 specifies what the daily rest breaks should be, then section 7 states what action should be taken when working in excess of these breaks defined in section 6

so section 6 says you should have an 11 hour daily break, section seven then covers what happens when you work in excess of this and says basically ok if your going over the 11 hour limit then dont go less than 9 hours daily break,

why have section 7 telling you how to deal with people going over these limits if its supposed to be a hard and fast rule of dont break them ever? surely if it was a hard and fast rule then you wouldnt be getting advice on how to give extra rest breaks to someone who has went over

[keithposty]

Keith can we just leave this?
The facts are the facts and in the 12 years since the Way Forward "arrived" the rules on breaks and "down time" have been blatantly ignored by both sides and when it is both sides there is absolutely nothing anyone can do about it because there is no "break police" to smash down the manager's door.
The Working Time Directive which a lot of the breaks section of the Way Forward is built around is about as much use as the instructions for an IKEA flatpack coffee table.


i totally agree but can their be an assurance that posts will be kept civil and polite


i do not mind a bit of banter but when it starts to get systamatic and personal, i draw the line

every body has to learn

a difference of opinion is what makes forums great so we learn of each other, not to be -little people who object to a persons point of view

LETS NOW CLOSE THIS DEBATE

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

i totally agree but can their be an assurance that posts will be kept civil and polite


i do not mind a bit of banter but when it starts to get systamatic and personal, i draw the line

every body has to learn

a difference of opinion is what makes forums great so we learn of each other, not to be -little people who object to a persons point of view

LETS NOW CLOSE THIS DEBATE

Keith you regulary be little people and often give out wrong advice yourself and then resort to accusing people of being managers in breach of the forum rules, its because of things like that that things get heated,

also typing in capitals is rude and considered shouting and also covered inn the forum rules yet even after you have been asked not to do it you continue

you are actually bringing half the flack on yourself