Employment tribunal

[Martin Walsh]

Fish I understand we are quite close to a new attendance procedure agreement which hopefully will address some of the concerns which we all have such as right of appeal at each stage etc.

The problem with the current attendance procdures is that whilst about 40% of staff can be on a stage of the prodcure very few get dismissed unless they have had 2 or 3 protential dismissal cases and therefore a tribunal looks at the whole record and this is what undoes a lot of indivduals sadly.

I am someone who does not believe we should have any trigger points in a procdure as some take that as a right to have time off when the real people who are sick get stiched up but I would say I am in a miniority on that.

[fishtank]

Fish I understand we are quite close to a new attendance procedure agreement which hopefully will address some of the concerns which we all have such as right of appeal at each stage etc.

The problem with the current attendance procdures is that whilst about 40% of staff can be on a stage of the prodcure very few get dismissed unless they have had 2 or 3 protential dismissal cases and therefore a tribunal looks at the whole record and this is what undoes a lot of indivduals sadly.

I am someone who does not believe we should have any trigger points in a procdure as some take that as a right to have time off when the real people who are sick get stiched up but I would say I am in a miniority on that.

No matter how many times you tell some members that their entire sick record may come back to haunt them some day they still believe that as long as they avoid the next trigger everything is reset to zero.
Then of course they have a run of genuine bad luck and you're staring at 5 pages of sick absence and trying to argue that it's a one off.
It's a difficult position because on the one hand you want to leave management with enough discretion to avoid the procedure becoming automated and mechanistic but on the other hand management discretion is a dangerous tool in the hands of a poor manager.

[General Mannerheim]

I'm just wondering what great concession Royal Mail will be getting out of this new attendance procedures?? ...You can bet that IF they do indeed give you the right to appeal at various stages then they will want something back...I'd guess that they will probably push NOT being paid for the first 3 days of sickness like most other business and going onto SSP .

[fishtank]

I'd guess that they will probably push NOT being paid for the first 3 days of sickness like most other business and going onto SSP .

If not this time then soon and certainly post-privatisation General.

[the flying postman]

Just a quick question, if you win an appeal do you get back pay?

[Martin Walsh]

Just a quick question, if you win an appeal do you get back pay?

Yes if you win your job back on appeal you will recieve your pay back for any weeks which you had a break in service from Royal Mail.

[the flying postman]

Cheers dingo, that's what i thought. Only my solicitor seems to think not.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Cheers dingo, that's what i thought. Only my solicitor seems to think not.

It depends on the question asked I think, and the nature of the Appeal.

If its an internal appeal then yes you get back pay as Dingo said - however solicitors are not usually involved at this stage

If you win your job back at the ET then I think they pay you back as Dingo said. Unless there is a clause in the decision, and of course payment may be held up if RM appeal a decision against them.

HOWEVER.

You can win an ET and still not be given your job back, and you could also win an ET but be found partly at fault - under these 2 conditions I am not sure the award would include all or even any of the back pay.

[Martin Walsh]

Tbt you are correct I assumed he was talking about an internal appeal against dismissal and had not yet got a decision.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Tbt you are correct I assumed he was talking about an internal appeal against dismissal and had not yet got a decision.

Phew -

[the flying postman]

Cheers guys, yeah i was talking about an internal appeal. I have still not had my decision after 120 days since i had my appeals hearing. joke!!! That's why i have got a solicitor on the case.

[REDLETTER]

Cheers dingo, that's what i thought. Only my solicitor seems to think not.

It depends on the question asked I think, and the nature of the Appeal.

If its an internal appeal then yes you get back pay as Dingo said - however solicitors are not usually involved at this stage

If you win your job back at the ET then I think they pay you back as Dingo said. Unless there is a clause in the decision, and of course payment may be held up if RM appeal a decision against them.

HOWEVER.

You can win an ET and still not be given your job back, and you could also win an ET but be found partly at fault - under these 2 conditions I am not sure the award would include all or even any of the back pay.

It is very rare an ET awards the re-instatment of the job. There can be various levels the ET can award - normally it is just monetary. And to clear the name of the claimant
RM don't want any lose cannons back on the workforce. Just those that say yes sir and don't have to think for themselves.

[the flying postman]

Lose cannons! I like it, yes that's defo me. Lol i don't won't the s**t job back in any case i just want to clear my name and get my money!!!

[Red Robbo]

Jayfin have you won your ET yet ?

[flaminmoses]

i think jayfin said his was in june???

mines early june.