We need an alternative union

[fishtank]

Fish the new model which will be subject to a policy forum will try and ensure the CWU will be the voice on that board.

Why?
I don't want the union acting like a shareholder.
I want the union acting like a union.
You can't be both.
Does a shareholder want to increase labour costs and therefore decrease dividends?...NO
Does a union want to increase wages,terms and conditions for it's members?.....YES
Does a shareholder want to cut costs to maximise profits?....YES
Does a union want to see it's members on the dole?....NO
We could play this all night...the two positions are oil and water.
If this goes through we might as well pack up and go home.

[dvbuk55]

Fish the new model which will be subject to a policy forum will try and ensure the CWU will be the voice on that board , the details need to be ironed out and just like now the union will still negotiate on all issues.

Look the model is still to be worked up and many of us have reservations over it and remain to be convinced or we won't accept it but what if We are sold off , any sensible union would scope and think how do we fight the future.

When you say fight you envisage someone punching themselves in the face how would you fight a board decision sat on it? Reservations seem to be all too easily overcome - lets take BT2010, some reservations prior to the agreement, overwhelming approbation after the interim agreement. I mean who could take seriously someones opinion who thought BT2010 was the deal of the century and here we are two years on, no nearer to modernisation in the round than we were then.

[BELIAL]

Just a word of caution to the fans of staff associations . When A and L switched from being a mutual to a bank the staff association withered and died within 10 years and the workers flocked to UNITE ,the staff association is no more

[POSTMAN]

I moved the motion calling for a review of the 100 failing units at conference and whilst it was defeated

What? What happens to them then,i'm confused.

[dvbuk55]

I moved the motion calling for a review of the 100 failing units at conference and whilst it was defeated

What? What happens to them then,i'm confused.

See you're not listening - all the problems are going to be sorted in 6 weeks time when the much vaunted forums are started..............if hot air was a solution we'd be laughing - it makes you wonder what effect all this chattering has on global warming

[Martin Walsh]

Postman is carried at Conference it becomes union policy and if it's defeated it does not.

Dvbuk how can you as a key board warrior accuse anyone of spouting a lot of hot air at lease they trying to benefit members and are accountable.

it is the easiest job in the world to criticise everything and everyone and put forward things which are never going to agreed solutions Especailly if all your willing to do to get those solutions is come on Royal Mail chat and criticise everyone who hasa different point of view.

Some of us spend more ofa time trying to make a difference to members.

[stokes11eg]

It's not so much the Union that's at fault--just buxom Billy, and dough faced Dave. Get them out.

[fishtank]

I think he has a point though dingo,the closer the union gets to the employer the more difficult it becomes to balance the needs of the employer,the needs of the union and the needs of the membership.
Yes we need a strong employer,yes we need a strong union but neither at the expense of the third and most important party...the membership.
What HQ needs to understand is that the only member of that threesome that can be removed is the CWU.
It might not be pretty but we would get by.

The ordinary members i have spoken to...and i admit it may not be as many as you..are already deeply suspicious of the growing relationship between CWU HQ and Royal Mail HQ and in particular the change in Dave Ward recently.
This board member nonsense will be deeply unpopular with the general membership..it's a lose/lose scenario because any gains will be seen as bribes and any negatives will be seen as selling out.
It is a disaster in the making although i feel a bit like Cassandra of Troy here and i suspect HQ will carry on regardless of member feeling.

[Red Robbo]

Its called Industrial Democracy, we had this prior to Thatcher's victory in 1979, then all the Union Big Wigs were kicked off the board, it never worked then and it will not work now. The Union will get too close to the flame and get burned !!!

[dvbuk55]

Postman is carried at Conference it becomes union policy and if it's defeated it does not.

Dvbuk how can you as a key board warrior accuse anyone of spouting a lot of hot air at lease they trying to benefit members and are accountable.

it is the easiest job in the world to criticise everything and everyone and put forward things which are never going to agreed solutions Especailly if all your willing to do to get those solutions is come on Royal Mail chat and criticise everyone who hasa different point of view.

Some of us spend more ofa time trying to make a difference to members.

You see dingo I believe that criticism is justified when people declare to be the benefactors of the membership when in fact they are more benefactors to themselves and the CWU. With the advent of the even newer relationship there is a distinct possibility of a conflict of interest. We are at opposed ends of the spectrum dingo, you a staunch supporter of the CWU with all its faults and I as a paying member who feels that MY best interests aren't being served. I think the CWU and therefore those who support its misguided approach to dealing with the employer are wrong.

Now who would be able to answer what the full time/part time split NATIONALLY is now - the union would be able to say what the ratio is but that would only be the members - and there is the little trapdoor of what is the ratio between members and non-members.

[Jayfin]

I agree totally with the last thread . After experiencing my dismissal and the bad reprensation I had at my appeal by the union Offical . I posted how uncomfortable it was for me on how cosy the rm manager and union Offical were . Not what i expected at all rm dictating to the union what would be happening to my case even though rm hadn't followed procedures and made errors leading up to my dismissal . Union didn't fight hard enough and rm dictated to them which makes me believe it's been filtered down from the big wigs on both sides if we can dismiss we will on any grounds bar disability . And the union behind closed doors are going along with this . Both sides being in the middle ground there's only going to be one winner and that's rm ,

[Cut Off King]

The Labour party changed to "New Labour"

Is the CWU changing into "New CWU"

[BoltonPostie]

I agree totally with the last thread . After experiencing my dismissal and the bad reprensation I had at my appeal by the union Offical . I posted how uncomfortable it was for me on how cosy the rm manager and union Offical were . Not what i expected at all rm dictating to the union what would be happening to my case even though rm hadn't followed procedures and made errors leading up to my dismissal . Union didn't fight hard enough and rm dictated to them which makes me believe it's been filtered down from the big wigs on both sides if we can dismiss we will on any grounds bar disability

Being disabled makes you more prone to be dismissed.

[Martin Walsh]

It does make me chuckle that a union who has had more strikes over the last 25 years then any other can be called weak or in managements pocket.

Look the deal you all call the nightmare, over 2 thirds of the offices have yet to have a delivery method revisons and the reason is the union tied the business into a six step process and that has stopped them doing what they want. Yes there have been some delivery revison failures which need to be sorted but Royal Mail`s plan for solving them is not the same as ours as they want to realise the savings.

Now most of you on here said that we would never get the 3.5% it was all dreams and yet we have.

Now the fact is whether I like it , you like or not is that the pension deficit has been resolved and all peoples current pensions are protected better than they have ever been and not bad for a company which had it not got state aid was closer to being bankrupt. Whilst some of the assets have been set aside for our future pensions and words are in there protecting them in the short term then the CWU must be in their talking to both Government and Royal Mail to protect them better.

In addition why would the members not want the CWU to be on one hand opposing the sell off whilst ensuring that any sell off will mean our terms and conditions are protected.

I and many others have had many a battle and strike with Royal Mail where things have got extremilly bitter , I remember in 1994 when London was out unoffically over CADR for over a week and a few of us got suspended and were going to dismissed , the union got a settlement which protected everyone and got taken to court and fined £10 000 with a further million if it breach the law again. So I will always fight to ensure we are an independent strong union free to make our decisions with members support.

However the CWU and former union UPW used to have Witney Councils which used to involve the union sitting on boards with management and intresting enough a lot the terms and conditions which people have liked over the years came from those boards .

So until I see what the postion is what the CWU at national level are trying to achieve I will keep and open mind and continue to ensure the members I reprsent are given the best reprsentation possible.

[dvbuk55]

It does make me chuckle that a union who has had more strikes over the last 25 years then any other can be called weak or in managements pocket.

Look the deal you all call the nightmare, over 2 thirds of the offices have yet to have a delivery method revisons and the reason is the union tied the business into a six step process and that has stopped them doing what they want. Yes there have been some delivery revison failures which need to be sorted but Royal Mail`s plan for solving them is not the same as ours as they want to realise the savings.

Now most of you on here said that we would never get the 3.5% it was all dreams and yet we have.

Now the fact is whether I like it , you like or not is that the pension deficit has been resolved and all peoples current pensions are protected better than they have ever been and not bad for a company which had it not got state aid was closer to being bankrupt. Whilst some of the assets have been set aside for our future pensions and words are in there protecting them in the short term then the CWU must be in their talking to both Government and Royal Mail to protect them better.

In addition why would the members not want the CWU to be on one hand opposing the sell off whilst ensuring that any sell off will mean our terms and conditions are protected.

I and many others have had many a battle and strike with Royal Mail where things have got extremilly bitter , I remember in 1994 when London was out unoffically over CADR for over a week and a few of us got suspended and were going to dismissed , the union got a settlement which protected everyone and got taken to court and fined £10 000 with a further million if it breach the law again. So I will always fight to ensure we are an independent strong union free to make our decisions with members support.

However the CWU and former union UPW used to have Witney Councils which used to involve the union sitting on boards with management and intresting enough a lot the terms and conditions which people have liked over the years came from those boards .

So until I see what the postion is what the CWU at national level are trying to achieve I will keep and open mind and continue to ensure the members I reprsent are given the best reprsentation possible.

Yes all very interesting I'm sure what has gone on over the last 25 years BUT the current members are more concerned about what has gone on over the last 5 years and more importantly the next 5 years. Good of you to say that there are over 1000 offices that HAVEN'T had a revision in line with BT 2010 as opposed to the 1000 you stated had had a revision and to the fact that there are indeed almost 30% of those with a true revision that have failed and you say they need to be sorted. TBH with that sort of failure rate on such a small percentage with a DM revision I'd be looking to see what was wrong with the system as a whole.

You see dingo you are on the periphery, as highlighted, and still don't know what the CWU are up to and yet we are the members who are paying these people to negotiate for us WITH OUR FULL KNOWLEDGE and not what BIG BROTHER CWU THINKS FIT. We must have an open disclosure with full input - something that the CWU supposedly set great store by in local reps dealings with RM and yet it is almost always a fait accompli - and don't say the members have the vote.........look what happened last time.