Dog bite through letter box

[junior1]

It is Royal Mails responsibility to report the incident to the police and/or dog warden, and you have no choice in that matter.

The purpose of a posting peg, (not dog peg), is for additional intervention where it is not possible to insert mail without your finger(s) also being inserted.

If you know there is a dog hazard, do not deliver the mail, it is the dog owners responsibility to remove the hazard, not yours to endanger yourself by attempting to work around it using warnings or pegs.

I asked my manager do I report it or does he report it to the police or dog warden. He said he doesn't have to report it all he has to do is fill out erica report, absence form and up date hazard on frame. I then asked my union rep what I should do. he said his was waiting to hear from his area health and safety man to get back in touch with him about what I should do. I'm still waiting to hear from him.

[fishtank]

Royal Mail are currently trailing a new system of dog hazard identification and accident reduction.
It follows on from seemingly successful trials in amongst other places Cardiff who have allegedly not had a dog attack in almost a year.
The paperwork consists of various WTLL safety messages,OPLs(one point lessons) and what they call the dog risk assessment matrix.
The basic premise behind it is that every dog on your delivery must be identified,not just those that pose a threat and the dog risk assessment matrix is used to categorise these dogs into risk groups.
High priority walks are identified and hazards are put into WRAP then the dog risk controls doc is used to apply appropriate control measures.
Customers with high risk animals are then contacted using the RM USO letters.
There are two new versions of the frame hazard cards that have to be prepped into the frame each day,taken out on delivery and then returned.
One is a Beware Dog At Large which has instructions on how to deal with a dog at large situation.
The other is a Beware Dog Behind Letterbox and has instructions on the Posting Peg and the clear statement...
Do not put fingers through letterbox.
There is also an OPL on Fingers Through Letter Box and the 5 Step Rule.

[DGP1]

Royal Mail are currently trailing a new system of dog hazard identification and accident reduction.
It follows on from seemingly successful trials in amongst other places Cardiff who have allegedly not had a dog attack in almost a year.
The paperwork consists of various WTLL safety messages,OPLs(one point lessons) and what they call the dog risk assessment matrix.
The basic premise behind it is that every dog on your delivery must be identified,not just those that pose a threat and the dog risk assessment matrix is used to categorise these dogs into risk groups.
High priority walks are identified and hazards are put into WRAP then the dog risk controls doc is used to apply appropriate control measures.
Customers with high risk animals are then contacted using the RM USO letters.
There are two new versions of the frame hazard cards that have to be prepped into the frame each day,taken out on delivery and then returned.
One is a Beware Dog At Large which has instructions on how to deal with a dog at large situation.
The other is a Beware Dog Behind Letterbox and has instructions on the Posting Peg and the clear statement...
Do not put fingers through letterbox.
There is also an OPL on Fingers Through Letter Box and the 5 Step Rule.

And it's all bollox, we did that years ago and it made no difference, just had the same number of bites but with all the blame being laid on the posties.

If they really want to reduce bites then they need to train US on how to recognise a potential danger and how to take steps to avoid it, I suppose that would cost too much and it's always better to have paperwork so that we can be blamed when accidents happen.

[fishtank]

If they really want to reduce bites then they need to train US on how to recognise a potential danger and how to take steps to avoid it.

The new system has training.
It has gems such as...
Don't
Wait on the doorstep when there is a dog behind the door.
If the door is opened the dog could get out and bite you.
Do
Stand 5 paces away from the door.
If you are 5 paces away your field of vision is greatly improved and you will be able to take defensive action if the dog gets out.

Quite what defensive action you can take against a German Shepherd that can cross 5 paces in a heartbeat is another story.
Personally if i know there is a big hairy set of teeth behind the door i usually retreat back behind the gate until i see the dog is secured,discretion being the better part of valour and attached to the body being the better part of bollocks.

[DGP1]

FT, that's not training, proper training would be with dog trainer, with various dogs (not in a RM site), in small groups and lasting at least a day not that crap they think is training.

Everytime I've been bitten was always an ambush and you're right, a few paces does nothing, can't run away, can't lift the trolly in fromt of you ( ) don't even have time to crap yourself

[fishtank]

FT, that's not training, proper training would be with dog trainer, with various dogs (not in a RM site), in small groups and lasting at least a day not that crap they think is training.

I'm not sure that time with a dog handler/trainer would be a good idea.
I've heard lots of conflicting advice over the years about how you should handle a dangerous dog and to be honest they are all valid and they are all bollocks.
Every dog and situation is different and training staff to do certain things when confronted by a dog other than the basic back away slowly/avoid eye contact could be dangerous.
Perhaps 110m hurdle training would be more productive.

[DGP1]

FT, that's not training, proper training would be with dog trainer, with various dogs (not in a RM site), in small groups and lasting at least a day not that crap they think is training.

I'm not sure that time with a dog handler/trainer would be a good idea.
I've heard lots of conflicting advice over the years about how you should handle a dangerous dog and to be honest they are all valid and they are all bollocks.
Every dog and situation is different and training staff to do certain things when confronted by a dog other than the basic back away slowly/avoid eye contact could be dangerous.
Perhaps 110m hurdle training would be more productive.

Which is why you need trained, I know by just looking at a dog what it's up to and what I should do in response but most people don't..........still, they want us to write the list then I'll do it, mark every dog as dangerous because the potentially are.

[brothermagrew]

It is Royal Mails responsibility to report the incident to the police and/or dog warden, and you have no choice in that matter.

The purpose of a posting peg, (not dog peg), is for additional intervention where it is not possible to insert mail without your finger(s) also being inserted.

If you know there is a dog hazard, do not deliver the mail, it is the dog owners responsibility to remove the hazard, not yours to endanger yourself by attempting to work around it using warnings or pegs.

I asked my manager do I report it or does he report it to the police or dog warden. He said he doesn't have to report it all he has to do is fill out erica report, absence form and up date hazard on frame. I then asked my union rep what I should do. he said his was waiting to hear from his area health and safety man to get back in touch with him about what I should do. I'm still waiting to hear from him.

Afraid then your manager is not telling you the truth and don't you have a workplace health and safety rep in situ.

12. Framework To Support the SMS Procedure to Report Dog (1).pdf

[junior1]

It is Royal Mails responsibility to report the incident to the police and/or dog warden, and you have no choice in that matter.

The purpose of a posting peg, (not dog peg), is for additional intervention where it is not possible to insert mail without your finger(s) also being inserted.

If you know there is a dog hazard, do not deliver the mail, it is the dog owners responsibility to remove the hazard, not yours to endanger yourself by attempting to work around it using warnings or pegs.

I asked my manager do I report it or does he report it to the police or dog warden. He said he doesn't have to report it all he has to do is fill out erica report, absence form and up date hazard on frame. I then asked my union rep what I should do. he said his was waiting to hear from his area health and safety man to get back in touch with him about what I should do. I'm still waiting to hear from him.

Afraid then your manager is not telling you the truth and don't you have a workplace health and safety rep in situ.

12. Framework To Support the SMS Procedure to Report Dog (1).pdf

Thank you I have printed this information to show my manager. Much appreciated. The more we do, the less dog bites and attacks will happen. Hopefully.

[junior1]

It is Royal Mails responsibility to report the incident to the police and/or dog warden, and you have no choice in that matter.

The purpose of a posting peg, (not dog peg), is for additional intervention where it is not possible to insert mail without your finger(s) also being inserted.

If you know there is a dog hazard, do not deliver the mail, it is the dog owners responsibility to remove the hazard, not yours to endanger yourself by attempting to work around it using warnings or pegs.

I asked my manager do I report it or does he report it to the police or dog warden. He said he doesn't have to report it all he has to do is fill out erica report, absence form and up date hazard on frame. I then asked my union rep what I should do. he said his was waiting to hear from his area health and safety man to get back in touch with him about what I should do. I'm still waiting to hear from him.

Afraid then your manager is not telling you the truth and don't you have a workplace health and safety rep in situ.

12. Framework To Support the SMS Procedure to Report Dog (1).pdf

No health and safety rep, not that I know of.

[brothermagrew]

junior1

The Framework To Support the SMS Procedure to Report Dog is a small part of the WRAP process which all managers should be familiar with. Remember also that the Area Health and Safety Rep is your rep as well, seeing as you have intimated that you do not appear to have a workplace health and safety rep.

If you have any future health and safety problems and get no satisfaction from management then take it up directly with your CWU Area Health and Safety Rep. Whilst understanding that your union rep was trying to assist you by contacting the Area Health and Safety Rep on your behalf, health and safety however does not normally fall under the union reps remit.

i.e. Union Rep = Industrial Relations - Safety Rep = Health and Safety

Suggest that you also use the search facility on RMC by typing in WRAP to give you more of an understanding.

[junior1]

junior1

The Framework To Support the SMS Procedure to Report Dog is a small part of the WRAP process which all managers should be familiar with. Remember also that the Area Health and Safety Rep is your rep as well, seeing as you have intimated that you do not appear to have a workplace health and safety rep.

If you have any future health and safety problems and get no satisfaction from management then take it up directly with your CWU Area Health and Safety Rep. Whilst understanding that your union rep was trying to assist you by contacting the Area Health and Safety Rep on your behalf, health and safety however does not normally fall under the union reps remit.

i.e. Union Rep = Industrial Relations - Safety Rep = Health and Safety

Suggest that you also use the search facility on RMC by typing in WRAP to give you more of an understanding.

Thank you brothermagrew, you're very helpful.

[stokes11eg]

I've said this before, but, as a first line of defence, why can't R/M print out cards that we could deliver to troublsome houses, briefly stating that if their dog bites or attacks a postman, they will be liable?
Sadly, some people truly do not see the risks we face, and if even a minority of dog owners pick this uo and read it,it could reduce the risk.

[junior1]

I've said this before, but, as a first line of defence, why can't R/M print out cards that we could deliver to troublsome houses, briefly stating that if their dog bites or attacks a postman, they will be liable?
Sadly, some people truly do not see the risks we face, and if even a minority of dog owners pick this uo and read it,it could reduce the risk.

I agree Royal Mail should print a leaflet to all houses, stating that all dog owners must have a cage at the back of their letterbox or an outside box fitted if they have a dog at their address. Failure to do so would be that their mail would be stopped and they would have to collect it. Also as you say they would be liable. Which hopefully this new law is going to make it possible to sue on private property if we are injured. But saying that no amount of money is going to take away the pain and mental stress we go through when we have been attacked. So prevention is better than any payout.

[mjcorbs]

I've had a laminated card posted through my door today with this posting peg idea. Can someone tell me what it is about and if it requires me to take any action. My dog is 9 years old, during those 9 years right up until the current person who delivers our post every single postman/woman has loved seeing our dog, it has never bitten anyone or anything other than a squeeky toy but now the post lady stands at the gate and shrieks for help and complains when the dog is outside, this action alone confuses the dog because it is so out of character he is never ever outside unattended and is quite clearly not vicious, it seems on here that you collectively think all dogs are vicious, is that not a problem that really needs to be addressed on individual merit?