Well you may be right BUT el dingo is probably right about there being little chance of going to a 5 day Mon to Fri delivery service - I mean can you imagine Sainsburys closing on Saturday and losing business and therefore profits on that day? What is more likely is that the existing staff will work a shorter working day over time and return to a six day week for the same pay or if the negotiations go as well as they have lately, less pay and of course it will all be in the guise of saving jobs..................probably the 50,000 that have already gone was told the sameheathrow86 wrote:A few years after privatisation has happened, who is to say that the Saturday deliveries will continue? We all know that the laws can be changed. The USO is not guaranteed. After all the new shareholders will want profits.
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21 out of 27 in EU have a 5 day week mail operation
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dvbuk55
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Re: 21 out of 27 in EU have a 5 day week mail operation
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heapsy
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Re: 21 out of 27 in EU have a 5 day week mail operation
Some interesting pots here. Let me pick up on a few points made if I may.... Quieter Tuesdays, yes that is true, but with deliveries as big as they are, and slower delivery methods, and if you come in on time and take a break, few in our office get finished that early.
Most people that advocate keeping Saturdays either don't work them, or have fixed finish times, ie in processing or distribution. Totally different story in delivery. You try telling a DOM that you don't want a late finish and see what happens. The pressure from them is terrible. Union? what union is this then? They are virtually powerless to put a stop to that sort of thing.
Delivery staff have always, and always will get treated like s**t, even by our own fellow workers who have no idea what we do or have to put up with.
Thirdly, but by no means least, delivery patterns. What exactly are these? I remember in the deal it was said that we would be able to have MORE Saturdays off. Better attendance patterns such as 9 day fortnights. The list goes on. Nobody in our postcode district got these as far as I know. When the deal was done our managers told us we couldn't have them because it was too complicated or cost too much. GET REAL.
Most people that advocate keeping Saturdays either don't work them, or have fixed finish times, ie in processing or distribution. Totally different story in delivery. You try telling a DOM that you don't want a late finish and see what happens. The pressure from them is terrible. Union? what union is this then? They are virtually powerless to put a stop to that sort of thing.
Delivery staff have always, and always will get treated like s**t, even by our own fellow workers who have no idea what we do or have to put up with.
Thirdly, but by no means least, delivery patterns. What exactly are these? I remember in the deal it was said that we would be able to have MORE Saturdays off. Better attendance patterns such as 9 day fortnights. The list goes on. Nobody in our postcode district got these as far as I know. When the deal was done our managers told us we couldn't have them because it was too complicated or cost too much. GET REAL.
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BELIAL
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Re: 21 out of 27 in EU have a 5 day week mail operation
So your manager told you you couldn't have them and you all believed him ?Thirdly, but by no means least, delivery patterns. What exactly are these? I remember in the deal it was said that we would be able to have MORE Saturdays off. Better attendance patterns such as 9 day fortnights. The list goes on. Nobody in our postcode district got these as far as I know. When the deal was done our managers told us we couldn't have them because it was too complicated or cost too much. GET REAL.
Not sure about "GET REAL" how about GET A WORKING BRAIN CELL it might improve your lot
Bye
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fishtank
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Re: 21 out of 27 in EU have a 5 day week mail operation
BELIAL wrote:So your manager told you you couldn't have them and you all believed him ?Thirdly, but by no means least, delivery patterns. What exactly are these? I remember in the deal it was said that we would be able to have MORE Saturdays off. Better attendance patterns such as 9 day fortnights. The list goes on. Nobody in our postcode district got these as far as I know. When the deal was done our managers told us we couldn't have them because it was too complicated or cost too much. GET REAL.![]()
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Sad really
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Not sure about "GET REAL" how about GET A WORKING BRAIN CELL it might improve your lot
A bit harsh Belial.
There must be a lot of lots to improve because by all accounts it seems to be quite a common occurrence.
A lot of lots of Area Reps sitting doing f**k all with all that release time methinks.
Members are not all "engaged",most of them have jobs and a life and can't be arsed with all this but they still deserve the same as the rest unless the union is planning on refunding their subs.
Now reps...it's kind of supposed to be their thing.
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
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BELIAL
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Re: 21 out of 27 in EU have a 5 day week mail operation
Possibly a little brusque ,but when some shouts get real at me after they have just swallowed a huge pile of management dung and have stood silently as they gave up some of the few benefits that BT2010 provided , it irritates.
I hope you didn't mean to sound patronising FT, it is true what you say, however if they don't get" engaged " there will be less of them with jobs, and those lives they have will look much different .
I guess the unknown is did anyone in the office alert the area rep ;if so and they got no joy , did they take it to division etc.
Not much point slagging off reps if you think the membership 'can't be arsed' I think you might agree that if this is the case then they probably get the representation they deserve , even if you disagree I don't think 'Union Rep Repair Man ' is going to fly to their rescue
I hope you didn't mean to sound patronising FT, it is true what you say, however if they don't get" engaged " there will be less of them with jobs, and those lives they have will look much different .
I guess the unknown is did anyone in the office alert the area rep ;if so and they got no joy , did they take it to division etc.
Not much point slagging off reps if you think the membership 'can't be arsed' I think you might agree that if this is the case then they probably get the representation they deserve , even if you disagree I don't think 'Union Rep Repair Man ' is going to fly to their rescue
Bye
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heapsy
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Re: 21 out of 27 in EU have a 5 day week mail operation
I work in one of the largest postcode areas in the country. That is to say not office but the whole letter district, ie L, GU etc. As far as I know, nobody got any of these 4 day weeks, 9 day fortnights etc. The problem is that the offices do not support each other, it isn't just a lack of rep/ area rep support. BTW, at the time of the revision we did not have an office rep. Instead Manchester branch appointed someone from another office who, we were told, was a good rep. They sold us down the river. He let us down badly.
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BELIAL
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Re: 21 out of 27 in EU have a 5 day week mail operation
Just out of curiosity heapsy ,did not a single person in these offices read the agreement? Cos the varying attendance patterns are already agreed ,you just have to ask /insist that they are deployed 
Bye
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hubbahubba
- MAIL CENTRES/PROCESSING
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Re: 21 out of 27 in EU have a 5 day week mail operation
What is the average attendance pattern for a DO postie?
In our MC we have to work 0600 until 1630 EVERY saturday if you want/need to work earlies!
It was agreed between local managment and CWU that these would be the attendance times(funnily enough none of the people who made these changes actually work on a saturday,who'd have thought eh?).
All duties are 0830-1630 with a compulsory 2hr 20min SA,so i feel your pain.......
In our MC we have to work 0600 until 1630 EVERY saturday if you want/need to work earlies!
It was agreed between local managment and CWU that these would be the attendance times(funnily enough none of the people who made these changes actually work on a saturday,who'd have thought eh?).
All duties are 0830-1630 with a compulsory 2hr 20min SA,so i feel your pain.......
same as it ever was...
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heapsy
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Re: 21 out of 27 in EU have a 5 day week mail operation
Really not sure about others, but we definitely did. I myself challenged the DOM and line manager on this and pushed them on it. They wouldn't budge. There are people in the office, myself included who know others in different offices and nobody seems to have got a better deal The rep they brought in was supposed to have a lot of experience. He came from a bigger office than mine, which is saying something, as my office is one of the biggest and busiest in our letter district.BELIAL wrote:Just out of curiosity heapsy ,did not a single person in these offices read the agreement? Cos the varying attendance patterns are already agreed ,you just have to ask /insist that they are deployed
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BELIAL
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Re: 21 out of 27 in EU have a 5 day week mail operation
heapsy wrote:Really not sure about others, but we definitely did. I myself challenged the DOM and line manager on this and pushed them on it. They wouldn't budge. There are people in the office, myself included who know others in different offices and nobody seems to have got a better deal The rep they brought in was supposed to have a lot of experience. He came from a bigger office than mine, which is saying something, as my office is one of the biggest and busiest in our letter district.BELIAL wrote:Just out of curiosity heapsy ,did not a single person in these offices read the agreement? Cos the varying attendance patterns are already agreed ,you just have to ask /insist that they are deployed
Could you clarify the sequence of events (it may help others yet to have revisions) You have no Rep ?
"the Rep they brought in" ,who did ?
This "Rep" signed off the agreement with or without a ballot of members ?
Either way ,if there were enough members who desired an alternative attendance pattern (eg 3 )then this should have been accommodated . A large portion of BT2010 deals with the mechanics of supporting a variety of attendance patterns across each unit, the majority of which incur zero cost to the business.
To paraphrase 'neither the CWU nor RM will sanction any local agreement that seeks to alter the terms or spirit of the agreement'
I'd take this higher if I was you ,with lots of detail and supporting evidence . It looks like you and others have been fleeced
Bye
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heapsy
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Re: 21 out of 27 in EU have a 5 day week mail operation
At the time of the revision we were between reps. Area branch appointed a rep from another office to oversee our revision. When it came to management giving details of how the revision had gone, we were told a different story to the one before the ballot on the deal. Several people including myself asked about the alternative work patterns but were told that these were not available. I even questioned someone higher up in the union, who is now a member of the CWU exec. committee regarding this and he also said that there wouldn't be any movement on the issue. Nobody, as far as I am aware got anything that was promised regarding changes to shift / attendance patterns. Area branch did nothing to sort this out. Our revision came in last year so its too late for us I think.
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BELIAL
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Re: 21 out of 27 in EU have a 5 day week mail operation
So another unit rep stepped in,OKheapsy wrote:At the time of the revision we were between reps. Area branch appointed a rep from another office to oversee our revision.
Scuse me ,what gives? Stated over and over that this is a joint process of transformation based on cooperation and communication in recognition of our mutual dependancyheapsy wrote: When it came to management giving details of how the revision had gone,
Could you clarify, words ,no sense no meaning for the reader ,it needs expanding on to convey your situationheapsy wrote: we were told a different story to the one before the ballot on the deal.
Why? What excuses were offered?heapsy wrote: Several people including myself asked about the alternative work patterns but were told that these were not available.
Name and shame if you are seriously suggesting that this union official told you he would not hold RM to the specific terms of BT2010heapsy wrote: I even questioned someone higher up in the union, who is now a member of the CWU exec. committee regarding this and he also said that there wouldn't be any movement on the issue.
It does look like you might be yellow bellied doormats who failed to look after themselves and got what they deserved ,harsh but true. The union negotiated an agreement ,it is there to be upheld, if your office lacks the wit or guts to stand up for their entitlements then why should you expect others to do it,we are the union after all,like it or notheapsy wrote: Nobody, as far as I am aware got anything that was promised regarding changes to shift / attendance patterns. Area branch did nothing to sort this out. Our revision came in last year so its too late for us I think.
Bye
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fishtank
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Re: 21 out of 27 in EU have a 5 day week mail operation
Not your best work Belial.BELIAL wrote:It does look like you might be yellow bellied doormats who failed to look after themselves and got what they deserved ,harsh but true. The union negotiated an agreement ,it is there to be upheld, if your office lacks the wit or guts to stand up for their entitlements then why should you expect others to do it,we are the union after all,like it or not
Doesn't sound much like a strong National Industrial Model that.
Sounds more like local and regional bargaining....every man and woman for themselves.
Throw pay into that mix and you'll have every Tory wetting himself.
We arra union
I understand your point to a certain extent but....by heapsy's account he's made a noise and ran into a brick wall.
That's the union's fault...there should be a door there,not a wall.
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
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Martin Walsh
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Re: 21 out of 27 in EU have a 5 day week mail operation
personally there is a balance between what Belial and Fish are saying. in my opinion every Branch in the UK know that the option of. 1 in 4 is included in the agreement and I think the vast majiority of local reps and members know.
In fact the staff survey is mandatory and forms part of the revisons process. of course management are opposed to improved attendances as It is easy to manage. But there are plenty of our members if we are honest scared to move to improved attendances as on paper their finishing times will be later on most days of the week and that many still believe they can get a flier.
Some of our members need to understand that they will work later on Saturdays but the key is now working less Saturdays.
Now I always ask myself why do some offices accept anything management throw at them or the union tells them and others stand up and say no we are not introducing or supporting Royal Mail's revison until we get what we want.
Remember a revison rarely works unless it has the support of the workforce and a delivery methods revisons rarely works whether it has support of not.
The key is this why would an office allow an outside rep to come in and do the work that someone from your office should have done ? yes you can get a rep to help from outside but it's is far better that someone steps up in the office who knows what people want and what the walks and issues are.
I don't buy the argument that the fault is local agreements as I joined in 1984 and it has always been down to local revisons and local input as CWU HQS cannot do revisons by remote control and if it did local offices would not support it.
Too many people play the blame game instead of taking responsibility for what is happening in their own office , their own Banch and their own division. We have a national agreement which states staff are entitled to 1 in 4 or less , we have an agree menu of options , offices have the right to vote on an agreement and reps have the right to disagree , sometimes if you are not getting what you want and are being ignored then you have to get together and say no and. Stand up and then you should get the support from your Branch , Division and nationally.
Too many accept what management says and then come and complain on here. personally the offices who normally get the best deals normally say no and then fight to get what they want. remember there are plenty of offices who were down as weak who became strong by doing this.
The Union and most unions are only as strong or weak by the strength of the union within the workplace or Branch.
I personally believe that the UNION must also root out reps and Branch's who do anything for an easy time and don't assist and support local reps and members getting what they want.
In fact the staff survey is mandatory and forms part of the revisons process. of course management are opposed to improved attendances as It is easy to manage. But there are plenty of our members if we are honest scared to move to improved attendances as on paper their finishing times will be later on most days of the week and that many still believe they can get a flier.
Some of our members need to understand that they will work later on Saturdays but the key is now working less Saturdays.
Now I always ask myself why do some offices accept anything management throw at them or the union tells them and others stand up and say no we are not introducing or supporting Royal Mail's revison until we get what we want.
Remember a revison rarely works unless it has the support of the workforce and a delivery methods revisons rarely works whether it has support of not.
The key is this why would an office allow an outside rep to come in and do the work that someone from your office should have done ? yes you can get a rep to help from outside but it's is far better that someone steps up in the office who knows what people want and what the walks and issues are.
I don't buy the argument that the fault is local agreements as I joined in 1984 and it has always been down to local revisons and local input as CWU HQS cannot do revisons by remote control and if it did local offices would not support it.
Too many people play the blame game instead of taking responsibility for what is happening in their own office , their own Banch and their own division. We have a national agreement which states staff are entitled to 1 in 4 or less , we have an agree menu of options , offices have the right to vote on an agreement and reps have the right to disagree , sometimes if you are not getting what you want and are being ignored then you have to get together and say no and. Stand up and then you should get the support from your Branch , Division and nationally.
Too many accept what management says and then come and complain on here. personally the offices who normally get the best deals normally say no and then fight to get what they want. remember there are plenty of offices who were down as weak who became strong by doing this.
The Union and most unions are only as strong or weak by the strength of the union within the workplace or Branch.
I personally believe that the UNION must also root out reps and Branch's who do anything for an easy time and don't assist and support local reps and members getting what they want.
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Stormproof
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Re: 21 out of 27 in EU have a 5 day week mail operation
We were told 1 in 3 or 4 was not an option at my office. Most of the office are now on 5 and 1 so at least we get a Saturday every 6 weeks.
Also never heard of a staff survey prior to changes
Also never heard of a staff survey prior to changes
So keep on moving, moving, moving your feet
Keep on shuf-shuf-shuffling to this ghost dance beat
Just keep on walking down never ending streets
Illegitimi non carborundum
Keep on shuf-shuf-shuffling to this ghost dance beat
Just keep on walking down never ending streets
Illegitimi non carborundum