Birmingham Royal Mail conference.

[Martin Walsh]

I can understand that Fish I really can and believe me a lot of us did not like what we heard , some swearing they would not go again and some did not go in the first place. One of the plus points is that Royal Mail have agreed to allow for regional road shows of the CWU speaking to local reps about all the issues and hopefully this will be done quicker than others.

Personally yesterday I got the impression that it was pure propaganda on a grand scale with only success on the menu and videos of offices which are working ignoring the real revison issues. had the CWU not been there all the other DOMs would not have heard that 100 revisons were not working and a few other issues.

The test of time will be the judge of wether it was worth it Or not .

[dvbuk55]

Cut of King no one is jumping in bed with anyone. However many times the likes of Postman asked has anyone heard what happened at the management event etc. This time we know and some of it is not good and needs to be opposed but do you really think by not going to an event like yesterday and or today would damage Royal Mail's plans.

Well it might show some bottle by ignoring the meeting in the first place. It does give the impression there is a distinct love fest going on between the CWU and Royal Mail, with the Branch meeting on the one hand and come and meet the team on the other, it's a bit like "you show me yours etc". Add that to the latest little niblet from HQ which stated "we fundamentally oppose privatisation". I would have thought it would be fighting tooth and nail to prevent it instead of trying to persuade the Government to give a little slice of the pie to the membership.............and other involved parties perhaps?

[Cut Off King]

Cut of King no one is jumping in bed with anyone. However many times the likes of Postman asked has anyone heard what happened at the management event etc. This time we know and some of it is not good and needs to be opposed but do you really think by not going to an event like yesterday and or today would damage Royal Mail's plans.

Dingo, I'm not talking about the CWU attending that event to find out whats going on, I'mm talking about the CWU going along with RM's vision of the future.

I'm talking about the BT2010 agreement that has gone against everything that people have lost wages in striking for in the past.

and before you say " the membership voted for it " , most members hadnt a clue what the deal entailed. They voted YES because the CWU mounted a campaign to seure a yes vote. On seeing the deal a local rep declaired that it was crap. Then he had to attend the CWU roadshow, and was converted to recomend it. When the vote to accept it was passed he reverted back to his original position...Its a crap deal....but its too late now. ( How many members have has the promissed £5000 benifits for the changes that they have had to endure ? Where's the new relationship between members & managers ? )

I'mm NOT getting at you personally. Just the CWUHQ who have allowed RM to lead them down this path, so far down it that they have relised that there is now way back now.

[Martin Walsh]

I have heard it all now DVBUK so the union would have shown some bottle by not going. How do you make that out ? We attended a meeting where we heard the direction of the business in a similar way that we did in the late 80s under John Keggie no one said we had no bottle then. When you go to a strategic involvement meeting on understanding Royal Mail's plans do you boycott these as well. perhaps we all cover our eyes and put our fingers in our ears so we don't see or hear what Royal Mail are doing cause that makes the Union strong !!!!

Of course it dose not , I am happy to listen to what anyone in Royal Mail has to say if it's open for debate and then make policy on the true issues rather than rumour and heresay.

look at the Northern Ireland Peace process no one talked peace on through bullets and bombs , in the end it took face to face talks to get any type of peace or would they had been better and stronger and showing more bottle not attending a meeting. The CWU were not and didn't agree any change today and Negotations are still continuing on the CWU policies.

[Martin Walsh]

Cut of king this is where I believe a lack of information has wrongly led to the belief the CWU supported the change.

First and foremost Royal Mail agreed a business plan with the Government and wanted to introduce that plan without agreement and without benefits. This resulted in hundreds of local strikes and a national strike. The business then negotiated on the plan and benefits but 5 things were not negotatble 1 The introduction of automation , 2 The change to workplan making Saturday a normal day , Mail centre closures all be it the impact of it was 4, door to door into workload all be it th remuneration was and 5 the introduction of CDVs and HCTs. As taking a back on your back or loading your car up or bike simply cannot continue given the increases in packets.

Now no union has held back automation and only this union has automation and the percentage of full time jobs , the Dutch average hour age for a postal work is 9 hours and orinally royal mail wanted to adopt the Dutch model.

of course no one likes change but equally no union has a veto on charge look at what happened the print workers thanks to Shah and Murdoch and automation and the miners.

[labbloke]

Keyboard Warriors are out an about.

[fishtank]

Keyboard Warriors are out an about.

Feel free to join in if you have anything relevant...or otherwise to add.

[dvbuk55]

Wow! More road shows? Now let me see what happened last time we had a succession of road shows Oh yeah, we got BT2010..............can't wait to see what priceless new stratagies are about to be divulge.................wonder if there'll be a Plan B this time.

[dvbuk55]

I have heard it all now DVBUK so the union would have shown some bottle by not going. How do you make that out ? We attended a meeting where we heard the direction of the business in a similar way that we did in the late 80s under John Keggie no one said we had no bottle then. When you go to a strategic involvement meeting on understanding Royal Mail's plans do you boycott these as well. perhaps we all cover our eyes and put our fingers in our ears so we don't see or hear what Royal Mail are doing cause that makes the Union strong !!!!

Of course it dose not , I am happy to listen to what anyone in Royal Mail has to say if it's open for debate and then make policy on the true issues rather than rumour and heresay.

look at the Northern Ireland Peace process no one talked peace on through bullets and bombs , in the end it took face to face talks to get any type of peace or would they had been better and stronger and showing more bottle not attending a meeting. The CWU were not and didn't agree any change today and Negotations are still continuing on the CWU policies.

In order to get to the table the bullets and bombs played their part. Tell me dingo do you think that the talks round the table happened without that? Do you think the peace process came about because one party gave way all the time? You boycott the meeting to show that you are not about to be led about by the nose at RMs behest. It may not make the union strong, that is not possible with the weak chinned leadership we have, but it would show the membership that there is some starch in the collar. And Yes every credit to those who refused to go........it would appear that some are principled still, whilst others are prepared to sup at the masters table and drink in whatever is on offer.

[dvbuk55]

Keyboard Warriors are out an about.

Didn't get an invite did you, shame.

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk of course they talked privately but so do Dave and Moya. The meetings are for larger groups to hear what the board is saying and their strategy. my phone did not stop from the so called principle ones wanting to know every thing what was said

[5plusbonusball]

What i heard was TNT has bought out 'THISIS....' newspaper free weekly paper/leaflets delivery and is cutting the pay rate to half what it is now. Don't know what other stuff they will be posting though.

[fishtank]

I think it's very dangerous for a union to plan strategy or even have strategy influenced by information relayed by the employer voluntarily with no hard evidence to back it up.
Royal Mail are no mugs,they will never admit to the union the genuine financial position or the detail of the business plan or privatisation plans because it weakens their bargaining position.
If they have an agenda they will feed the union information that furthers that agenda...that's not a conspiracy theory it's only common sense.
We will find out from the regional roadshows whether the union has any common sense because if they just parrot the business position it will be obvious that we're all being conned again.

[labbloke]

Keyboard Warriors are out an about.

Didn't get an invite did you, shame.

No just fed up of a couple of peeps who seem to dominate this forum with nothing half decent to say. I want to read peoples views from around the country not two or three's whhose main aim is to comment on every single thread, in many occasions turning a serious thread into a farce with too much childish humour. I for one have certainly dropped my daily viewing.
Rant over

[BELIAL]

This time we know and some of it is not good and needs to be opposed but do you really think by not going to an event like yesterday and or today would damage Royal Mail's plans.

No it wouldn't dingo but going damages the union's credibility with the rank and file and whether you think that is right or wrong it should be taken in to account.
Everything the union is doing right now could be 100% the right thing to do,,,only time will tell but if you forget to take the membership with you it will not only count for nothing it will do irreparable damage to the relationship between grass roots and HQ which is already shaky at best.
There is a deep rooted perception within the membership of an arrogance at HQ and an overeagerness to please our employer.
That may be completely false but it doesn't matter in the slightest because the perception exists and being wined and dined by management even if it is only tea and biscuits....only serves to feed that perception.

And when you add to that ,area reps failing to address flagrant abuses of bt2010, for who knows why, the picture looks grim