Project plan

[Martin Walsh]

Talks have progressed well. Regional delivery and collections managers and divisional reps met in London yesterday and both sides recognised that only 480 delivery method revisions have been introduced thus far two years into the deal and 800 were still to go and clearly this is not going to be completed by the original lifespan of the agreement and each side recognise that the fact that some members will still not had had any money or the shorter working week after 3 years needs to be tackled.

In addition it was widely accepted that some revisions which had failed still had not been put right and some have never had a PIR.

On top of this is the fact that some offices which had introduced delivery methods had now stopped using the agreed tools , some going back to carrying a bag and some back to using private cars. It was proposed by a manager that to stop this in the future that all pouch bags should be handed back in at the start of revisions and the straps to be cut off. Equally on the use of private cars individuals should be told the bond has been withdrawn and you now had no insurance to transport any mail and that it was illegal.


In terms of the upper decile 3 offices per Royal Mail region will be jointly visited of offices considered in the upper decile and those out of to anaylise if the method for choosing who is in the upper decile is fair.

It is expected that all of national issues will be subject to a report to the CWUs annual conference which takes place from the 22nd of April.

[fishtank]

It was proposed by a manager that to stop this in the future that all pouch bags should be handed back in at the start of revisions and the straps to be cut off.

I think that is a good idea.
I would like to think that it would be applied to all offices that have gone through a revision.
It was in retrospect naive to supply the new bags for the trolleys with shoulder straps.
This is a very big issue and hopefully it will receive the importance it deserves.
Thank you for the update dingo.

[woofwoof]

It was proposed by a manager that to stop this in the future that all pouch bags should be handed back in at the start of revisions and the straps to be cut off.

I think that is a good idea.
I would like to think that it would be applied to all offices that have gone through a revision.
It was in retrospect naive to supply the new bags for the trolleys with shoulder straps.
This is a very big issue and hopefully it will receive the importance it deserves.
Thank you for the update dingo.

you thanking dingo

[POSTMAN]

On top of this is the fact that some offices which had introduced delivery methods had now stopped using the agreed tools , some going back to carrying a bag and some back to using private cars. It was proposed by a manager that to stop this in the future that all pouch bags should be handed back in at the start of revisions and the straps to be cut off. Equally on the use of private cars individuals should be told the bond has been withdrawn and you now had no insurance to transport any mail and that it was illegal.

Thanks for the update Dingo,but are Royal Mail really trying,a simple,threatening ops flash regarding the above is not hard is it.
I think it's all bollox.

[POSTMAN]

It was proposed by a manager that to stop this in the future that all pouch bags should be handed back in at the start of revisions and the straps to be cut off.

That is the most ridiculous thing,well one of them that i've ever heard.

[dvbuk55]

Yes thank you dingo, it shows that the union are really on top of things.

However I fail to see what exactly is being done to reconcile the delivery issues. 2 years in and only a third of offices with any sort of revision, more interpretations of BT 2010 than you can poke a big stick at, cars still being used, cycles still in use, bags still being shouldered, bullying still extant, 100BSI not resolved and the model week still pie in the sky.................so what exactly, other than talking, is being done to resolve the issues.

Management are still flouting the issues because nothing is being done to bring them to book.

[fishtank]

It was proposed by a manager that to stop this in the future that all pouch bags should be handed back in at the start of revisions and the straps to be cut off.

That is the most ridiculous thing,well one of them that i've ever heard.

Why?
Should we just leave it to managers and members to act like adults?
That works doesn't it...

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

It was proposed by a manager that to stop this in the future that all pouch bags should be handed back in at the start of revisions and the straps to be cut off.

I think that is a good idea.
I would like to think that it would be applied to all offices that have gone through a revision.
It was in retrospect naive to supply the new bags for the trolleys with shoulder straps.
This is a very big issue and hopefully it will receive the importance it deserves.
Thank you for the update dingo.

yes it is a good idea but i do forsee a slight flaw in it, if we did that to every single delivery pouch what are we going to do when it snows? correct me if i am wrong but i thought the ssow of work with hct or lwt was in event of snow/ice where their use would be dangerous was to use pouches albeit with a very light load, and i am not suggesting depths of a foot or two of snow or whatever where only mad scots men venture out in, but where it is deemed safe enough to continue deliveries but without trollies

[woofwoof]

It was proposed by a manager that to stop this in the future that all pouch bags should be handed back in at the start of revisions and the straps to be cut off.

That is the most ridiculous thing,well one of them that i've ever heard.

thats true why not buy the cheaper bag without the strap

we could name it the absorbing bag it makes savings

[woofwoof]

It was proposed by a manager that to stop this in the future that all pouch bags should be handed back in at the start of revisions and the straps to be cut off.

I think that is a good idea.
I would like to think that it would be applied to all offices that have gone through a revision.
It was in retrospect naive to supply the new bags for the trolleys with shoulder straps.
This is a very big issue and hopefully it will receive the importance it deserves.
Thank you for the update dingo.

yes it is a good idea but i do forsee a slight flaw in it, if we did that to every single delivery pouch what are we going to do when it snows? correct me if i am wrong but i thought the ssow of work with hct or lwt was in event of snow/ice where their use would be dangerous was to use pouches albeit with a very light load, and i am not suggesting depths of a foot or two of snow or whatever where only mad scots men venture out in, but where it is deemed safe enough to continue deliveries but without trollies

the 8kg bag maybe

[fishtank]

yes it is a good idea but i do forsee a slight flaw in it, if we did that to every single delivery pouch what are we going to do when it snows? correct me if i am wrong but i thought the ssow of work with hct or lwt was in event of snow/ice where their use would be dangerous was to use pouches albeit with a very light load, and i am not suggesting depths of a foot or two of snow or whatever where only mad scots men venture out in, but where it is deemed safe enough to continue deliveries but without trollies

To be honest there is no real need to cut the straps,removing them would be enough because it isn't really about physically stopping members using bags.
I'm sure if they wanted to they will find a way around it.
It's more about getting a signal to members that RM are taking weight off the shoulder seriously and giving reps more ammunition.
If a manager is told to remove the straps by Royal Mail it's a pretty unambiguous statement and one that can't be hidden from the office.

[jessicarabbit]

Unfortunately don't 'we' all use the straps to move bags into yorks and to lift bags into vans onto scales etc.....Would totally have to re-design the bag with carry handles. Also what about when removing the bag and delivering into flats????? Managers are currently doing Outdoor Safety Observations, surely a few conduct code cases for members not using the correct delivery method would reinforce the 'use the LWT' message wouldn't it?

[fishtank]

Managers are currently doing Outdoor Safety Observations, surely a few conduct code cases for members not using the correct delivery method would reinforce the 'use the LWT' message wouldn't it?

Isn't that really just the position right now?....that isn't working.
Royal Mail will not take any sanctions against a manager for this.
Managers will not stop members from using bags if it gets the job done....just like starting early...just like skipping meal relief.
It needs a solution not just the same old.

[jessicarabbit]

You can lead a horse to water and all that gumph

We are all adults we all have to live and die by the consequences of our actions (or inaction) Don't we?

[fishtank]

You can lead a horse to water and all that gumph

We are all adults we all have to live and die by the consequences of our actions (or inaction) Don't we?

Three points.
1. We are having this debate because management are leading the horse in the other direction.
2. On Health&Safety issues,if members are left to there own devices they are far more likely to die by their own actions(or inaction).
3. Failure to deal with this issue will have long term consequences on the job security of even those adults/horses who know where the water is and how to drink it.