24 February 2012
LTB 133/12 Royal Mail Work Experience Programme
TO: ALL BRANCHES WITH POSTAL MEMBERS
Dear Colleague
Royal Mail Work Experience Programme
Given the continuing public debate surrounding Government Workfare initiatives, the following will update Postal Branches on the ongoing discussions between Royal Mail and CWU, (referred to in LTB 126/12) over the Royal Mail Work Experience Programme.
The national parties are now in the process of finalising a comprehensive statement that addresses all of the contentious issues being highlighted in the wider public debate. This includes being unequivocal in a Joint Statement that the voluntary nature of the scheme – is voluntary throughout. This means that individuals must have the ability to choose to leave at any point during the Scheme, without being penalised in anyway by the Department of Work and Pensions.
Good progress has also been made in dealing with the complexities of benefit regulations towards securing a suitable remuneration package for Royal Mail Work Experience candidates.
We can also confirm that any subsequent job offers arising from the scheme, would be dealt with in a way that does not disadvantage existing temporary/fixed term contract employees who are seeking a permanent job.
We are confident that Royal Mail will confirm in any final statement, that this Scheme is not about free or cheap labour replacing paid for jobs or the additional earnings opportunities of existing Royal Mail employees.
The approach the CWU and Royal Mail are taking is about ensuring that any Royal Mail Work Experience Programme will support both proper Trade Union Principles and set the benchmark for a good employer.
Royal Mail has confirmed that they are confident we will be able to agree a Joint Statement, as outlined above, before the commencement of the Scheme. We have advised Royal Mail that if, for any reason this is not the case, the CWU will have no option other than to review our position and withdraw support. The content of this LTB has been shared with the company.
We will keep you informed of further developments. In the meantime, please ensure that you use the content of this LTB to accurately reflect the Union’s position to any interested parties.
Yours sincerely
Dave Ward
Deputy General Secretary (P)
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LTB 133/12 Royal Mail Work Experience Programme
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TrueBlueTerrier
- FORUM ADMINISTRATOR
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LTB 133/12 Royal Mail Work Experience Programme
All post by me in Green are Admin Posts.
Any post in any other colour is my own responsibility.
If you like a news story I posted please click the link to show support Any news stories you can't post - PM me with a link
My sharing of news articles should not be interpreted as an endorsement or condemnation of any particular viewpoint or the issues presented. I share them solely for informational purposes.
Any post in any other colour is my own responsibility.
If you like a news story I posted please click the link to show support Any news stories you can't post - PM me with a link
My sharing of news articles should not be interpreted as an endorsement or condemnation of any particular viewpoint or the issues presented. I share them solely for informational purposes.
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woofwoof
- Posts: 1516
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Re: LTB 133/12 Royal Mail Work Experience Programme
just like the cadet thing that was one big f**k up they started full time before senior kids that already worked for royal mail
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arnold cheshire
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Re: LTB 133/12 Royal Mail Work Experience Programme
the cadet thing wasnt a f**k upwoofwoof wrote:just like the cadet thing that was one big f**k up they started full time before senior kids that already worked for royal mail
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fishtank
- Posts: 19732
- Joined: 28 Sep 2007, 17:22
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Re: LTB 133/12 Royal Mail Work Experience Programme
This includes being unequivocal in a Joint Statement that the voluntary nature of the scheme – is voluntary throughout. This means that individuals must have the ability to choose to leave at any point during the Scheme, without being penalised in anyway by the Department of Work and Pensions.
Chris Grayling Minister for Employment on BBC Radio 4's Today programme
And i quote....
"Jobseekers who dropped out of the scheme "without good reason" would be investigated - and in some cases face the same sanction they would for not turning up to sign on at the job centre."
Just how unequivocal do you want it Dave?
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
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Lincox
- EX ROYAL MAIL
- Posts: 3485
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Re: LTB 133/12 Royal Mail Work Experience Programme
The approach the CWU and Royal Mail are taking is about ensuring that any Royal Mail Work Experience Programme will support both proper Trade Union Principles and set the benchmark for a good employer.
Trouble is how are Royal Mail going to know what the benchmark for a good employer is.

Trouble is how are Royal Mail going to know what the benchmark for a good employer is.
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dvbuk55
- EX ROYAL MAIL
- Posts: 16650
- Joined: 02 Jun 2007, 19:17
- Gender: Male
Re: LTB 133/12 Royal Mail Work Experience Programme
Burgerking have now pulled out for the fear of people boycotting their product...........looks as though when their profit margin is threatened it's no longer a good idea.
now what could we do to change the leaderships minds on supporting the scheme I wonder 
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fishtank
- Posts: 19732
- Joined: 28 Sep 2007, 17:22
- Gender: Male
Re: LTB 133/12 Royal Mail Work Experience Programme
A question Dave should think about asking...is A4e involved and what are Royal Mail's continuing links with A4e.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012 ... properties" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
We already know that A4e are involved with Royal Mail in both management training and it's Career Discussions.
http://www.a4etransitions.com/case-stud ... ase-study/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Are they acting as the middle man in this Work Experience Programme Dave?
If so do you really think that's the sort of thing we should be supporting?
It just gets smellier and smellier.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012 ... properties" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
We already know that A4e are involved with Royal Mail in both management training and it's Career Discussions.
http://www.a4etransitions.com/case-stud ... ase-study/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Are they acting as the middle man in this Work Experience Programme Dave?
If so do you really think that's the sort of thing we should be supporting?
It just gets smellier and smellier.
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
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randompostman
- Posts: 300
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Re: LTB 133/12 Royal Mail Work Experience Programme
Well that’s all OK then all my concerns have been answered and RM won’t take the p*ss like they do on everything else and there are jobs going that our members won’t get but it will not disadvantage members wanting a job and any work done by unemployed workers is not work done by paid CWU members. FFS what planet do they live on?
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TrueBlueTerrier
- FORUM ADMINISTRATOR
- Posts: 72478
- Joined: 30 Dec 2006, 10:29
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- Location: On my couch
Re: LTB 133/12 Royal Mail Work Experience Programme
Interesting post on this on Face Book so I have copied it completely for RMC
Government Workfare Initiative and the Postal Executive's support
Despite the Government's back-to-work scheme being in disarray after Tesco announced it would immediately offer a wage to all benefits claimants working unpaid in its’ stores, and several big chains reported they were suspending involvement in the programme, the Postal Executive continue to try and justify their stance in a disgraceful manner.
The Workfare scheme is nothing more than Jim Bowen saying ‘this is a job you could have had’- effectively forcing young people into a scheme unpaid and at the end of the period to be tossed back onto the Dole. Questions have been raised in many quarters as to what will happen if an individual does not ‘volunteer’ for this scheme or decides to pull out part way through. We believe that individuals could have their benefits stopped by the DWP.
The shocking announcement that our Union had indicated support for this initiative in Royal Mail was made on the 6th January by way of a LTB from Dave Ward, indicating that the Executive were "happy" that "placements will be for a duration of 4 weeks" and also therefore clearly joyful that the 'lucky' unemployed people would be forced to work unpaid.
Even Argos said it wanted "to ensure the scheme is voluntary … [and] no one is disadvantaged by working on this programme". This is in sharp contrast to the scheme as operated in Royal Mail – theirs makes no such assurances - supported by the Executive.
To make matters worse, last week the Postal Executive met for the 1st time to discuss this issue as there has been [understandably] "considerable media interest" - not least very angry members - and instead of opposing the ConDem’s workfare scheme - sought to justify the position of the 6th January LTB.
To say the latest LTB on this issue faces both ways would be over-simplifying the contents - it also twists and turns and re-writes in part what was said in the LTB issued back on the 6th January. The Executive are now saying that they "will not support any form of Workfare".
So if that is the case - withdraw from your position in supporting Workfare in Royal Mail - we challenge you to do this.
The Executive also seek to justify their position by saying 'it's OK as it's only a 4 week voluntary placement'. What signal does that give our unemployed young Workers in this Country where although Companies like Argos and Tesco have withdrawn from the scheme - a major trade union is "happy" to support it in Royal Mail.
SHAME ON YOU
At least the Executive should have sought that the work experience scheme is voluntary and that participants are paid at least the wage of the existing staff with a guaranteed job at the end.
The scheme is not now due to commence until March 2012 - that gives a short time for activists up and down the country to demand that:-
• The CWU withdraw their support for the Workfare scheme
• Campaign to stop Royal Mail from introducing it
• Reaffirm their commitment to the TUC position
The only solution to many young people out of work is proper training schemes with real jobs and a living wage at the end of it.
Whilst there is a Motion on Workfare down to be heard on the pad at Conference it is unlikely to be reached and does not specifically deal with the present situation. Activists must now seek to submit Emergency Motions to be placed into General Conference on this issue to force a debate on a decision which is so far removed from the membership at a time when unemployed people need our support and when hundreds of Royal Mail current jobs are at risk due to building closures.
As worrying is a possibility that BT Group and O2 have also looked at this scheme and it will not be long before the Telecoms Executive is approached in this manner. We need to stake our ground now - NO WORKFARE IN COMPANIES WHERE WE HAVE CWU MEMBERSHIP - and a clear commitment from all at Executive level to adhere to the TUC Policy and campaign for REAL JOBS AND ON REAL PAY. If they are not prepared to do that - STEP ASIDE.
FOR DIGNITY AND RESPECT IN THE WORKPLACE
JOIN THE BROAD LEFT AND JOIN THE CAMPAIGN FOR A FIGHTING LEADERSHIP
To join the Broad Left please email: thebroadcast@btinternet.com
Government Workfare Initiative and the Postal Executive's support
Despite the Government's back-to-work scheme being in disarray after Tesco announced it would immediately offer a wage to all benefits claimants working unpaid in its’ stores, and several big chains reported they were suspending involvement in the programme, the Postal Executive continue to try and justify their stance in a disgraceful manner.
The Workfare scheme is nothing more than Jim Bowen saying ‘this is a job you could have had’- effectively forcing young people into a scheme unpaid and at the end of the period to be tossed back onto the Dole. Questions have been raised in many quarters as to what will happen if an individual does not ‘volunteer’ for this scheme or decides to pull out part way through. We believe that individuals could have their benefits stopped by the DWP.
The shocking announcement that our Union had indicated support for this initiative in Royal Mail was made on the 6th January by way of a LTB from Dave Ward, indicating that the Executive were "happy" that "placements will be for a duration of 4 weeks" and also therefore clearly joyful that the 'lucky' unemployed people would be forced to work unpaid.
Even Argos said it wanted "to ensure the scheme is voluntary … [and] no one is disadvantaged by working on this programme". This is in sharp contrast to the scheme as operated in Royal Mail – theirs makes no such assurances - supported by the Executive.
To make matters worse, last week the Postal Executive met for the 1st time to discuss this issue as there has been [understandably] "considerable media interest" - not least very angry members - and instead of opposing the ConDem’s workfare scheme - sought to justify the position of the 6th January LTB.
To say the latest LTB on this issue faces both ways would be over-simplifying the contents - it also twists and turns and re-writes in part what was said in the LTB issued back on the 6th January. The Executive are now saying that they "will not support any form of Workfare".
So if that is the case - withdraw from your position in supporting Workfare in Royal Mail - we challenge you to do this.
The Executive also seek to justify their position by saying 'it's OK as it's only a 4 week voluntary placement'. What signal does that give our unemployed young Workers in this Country where although Companies like Argos and Tesco have withdrawn from the scheme - a major trade union is "happy" to support it in Royal Mail.
SHAME ON YOU
At least the Executive should have sought that the work experience scheme is voluntary and that participants are paid at least the wage of the existing staff with a guaranteed job at the end.
The scheme is not now due to commence until March 2012 - that gives a short time for activists up and down the country to demand that:-
• The CWU withdraw their support for the Workfare scheme
• Campaign to stop Royal Mail from introducing it
• Reaffirm their commitment to the TUC position
The only solution to many young people out of work is proper training schemes with real jobs and a living wage at the end of it.
Whilst there is a Motion on Workfare down to be heard on the pad at Conference it is unlikely to be reached and does not specifically deal with the present situation. Activists must now seek to submit Emergency Motions to be placed into General Conference on this issue to force a debate on a decision which is so far removed from the membership at a time when unemployed people need our support and when hundreds of Royal Mail current jobs are at risk due to building closures.
As worrying is a possibility that BT Group and O2 have also looked at this scheme and it will not be long before the Telecoms Executive is approached in this manner. We need to stake our ground now - NO WORKFARE IN COMPANIES WHERE WE HAVE CWU MEMBERSHIP - and a clear commitment from all at Executive level to adhere to the TUC Policy and campaign for REAL JOBS AND ON REAL PAY. If they are not prepared to do that - STEP ASIDE.
FOR DIGNITY AND RESPECT IN THE WORKPLACE
JOIN THE BROAD LEFT AND JOIN THE CAMPAIGN FOR A FIGHTING LEADERSHIP
To join the Broad Left please email: thebroadcast@btinternet.com
All post by me in Green are Admin Posts.
Any post in any other colour is my own responsibility.
If you like a news story I posted please click the link to show support Any news stories you can't post - PM me with a link
My sharing of news articles should not be interpreted as an endorsement or condemnation of any particular viewpoint or the issues presented. I share them solely for informational purposes.
Any post in any other colour is my own responsibility.
If you like a news story I posted please click the link to show support Any news stories you can't post - PM me with a link
My sharing of news articles should not be interpreted as an endorsement or condemnation of any particular viewpoint or the issues presented. I share them solely for informational purposes.