Part timers and tax credits

[fishtank]

given the CHOICE of working extra hours and refusing because you know your tax credits are going to supplement your income surely thats wrong

It would depend on how much of my family life i was sacrificing.
Perhaps a better all round solution would be to learn to live on 39hrs pay,not easy but if it came down a CHOICE between the bigger house or some kind of reasonable family life maybe that's a more important choice than whether you claim tax credits or not.
I certainly wouldn't kill myself over bricks and mortar.
I don't see that as "bettering myself".
I don't value myself in monetary terms
Simon Cowell has a huge house and wads of money and he's a complete tosser.

[Tommase]

He is contracted to 20 hours ! That is not by no means excessive or the norm (39 hours tends to be regarded as so) I choose to work my rest day to boost my wage so to afford …… petrol & food ! My point is when given the same CHOICE as me why is he able to choose not to ? Because he has this safety net of tax credits and as he does not have a mortgage and rents privately. His rent is supplemented and only sees fit to work 20 hours a week so not to exceed the limits set by the government. I cant see how this has become a topic for extended discussion ?

[fishtank]

He is contracted to 20 hours ! That is not by no means excessive or the norm (39 hours tends to be regarded as so) I choose to work my rest day to boost my wage so to afford …… petrol & food ! My point is when given the same CHOICE as me why is he able to choose not to ? Because he has this safety net of tax credits and as he does not have a mortgage and rents privately. His rent is supplemented and only sees fit to work 20 hours a week so not to exceed the limits set by the government. I cant see how this has become a topic for extended discussion ?

Who is he?
I thought this was a general discussion.
People make life choices Tommase.
Your are yours and i respect that but you can't get up on your high horse and say yours are right and everybody else should follow your lead.
As long as people are not breaking the law and making dodgy claims they can lead their lives however they want and claim whatever the system says they are allowed to claim.

[banner18]

I'm not saying there aren't problems with the tax credit system, but it is there because the tax system is fatally flawed. If one works within the tax credit rules and regs, they are doing nothing wrong. Who's to say that someone doing 20 hours work would need any tax credits if the tax system worked fairly?
One example where tax credits are flawed is where children are concerned. For example, a guy doing 20 hours with 2 children would be given extra credits for each extra child ad infinitum, which is ridiculous as other people are certainly paying for that once there are many children. This is also the case with social security benefits. This is a separate point though.

[Tommase]

I know circumstances dictate (childcare etc) but my brother in law chooses not to work extra hours in order to qualify for tax credits where as I work 6 days a week breaking my 'b#@*s' to have that SA rest day payment !

That’s my original post talking about my brother in law and in turn me. Have you read the previous posts ????
Indeed life is about choices, but can you not see how given the opportunity and the choice to work some people are choosing not to. In this case a family member. I would love to be perched on your orange box of righteousness ! maybe it would aid me in getting down of my 'high horse'

[Tommase]

I'm not saying there aren't problems with the tax credit system, but it is there because the tax system is fatally flawed. If one works within the tax credit rules and regs, they are doing nothing wrong. Who's to say that someone doing 20 hours work would need any tax credits if the tax system worked fairly?
One example where tax credits are flawed is where children are concerned. For example, a guy doing 20 hours with 2 children would be given extra credits for each extra child ad infinitum, which is ridiculous as other people are certainly paying for that once there are many children. This is also the case with social security benefits. This is a separate point though.

A great post without the need of virulent remarks. He has (historically) worked lots of hours but because he now has a child there is an OPTION not to. My previous post had never intended to encourage such response as in my mind if given the OPTION/CHOICE to work and you CHOOSE not to surely that should not be met with reward ? I walk the same steps 6 days a week because I have little choice (something about work life balance) you work x hours you get paid x hours !

[wiganpostie]

Whenever I get the slightest pang of jealousy with respect to materialism then I visit http://www.globalrichlist.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to put things in perspective, and resume normality, suitably humbled.

[banner18]

Whenever I get the slightest pang of jealousy with respect to materialism then I visit http://www.globalrichlist.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to put things in perspective, and resume normality, suitably humbled.

[banner18]

I'm not saying there aren't problems with the tax credit system, but it is there because the tax system is fatally flawed. If one works within the tax credit rules and regs, they are doing nothing wrong. Who's to say that someone doing 20 hours work would need any tax credits if the tax system worked fairly?
One example where tax credits are flawed is where children are concerned. For example, a guy doing 20 hours with 2 children would be given extra credits for each extra child ad infinitum, which is ridiculous as other people are certainly paying for that once there are many children. This is also the case with social security benefits. This is a separate point though.

A great post without the need of virulent remarks. He has (historically) worked lots of hours but because he now has a child there is an OPTION not to. My previous post had never intended to encourage such response as in my mind if given the OPTION/CHOICE to work and you CHOOSE not to surely that should not be met with reward ? I walk the same steps 6 days a week because I have little choice (something about work life balance) you work x hours you get paid x hours !

It is difficult to know what the choices/options really are due to an unfair tax system. Without a tax credit system, there would have to be a extremely low welfare benefits to make work pay would there not?

[IloveMYredTROLLEY!]

In order to qualify for all parts of Working Tax Credits, the worker receiving the payment has to typically work 30 hours per week (note it does not talk about what you are paid during holiday weeks and "typically" can be taken to mean that on average working weeks excluding holiday 30 hours are worked. Given that us posties are paid nearly £9 per hour at standard rate (excluding S/A and o/t), average 30-hour weeks over 48 weeks (i.e. excluding basic 4 week holiday entitlement) will bring home ~£13000 gross minimum (more for 22.5 doing 7.5 hours o/t on average per week) and the upper threshold is ~£17000 for receiving any WTC, receivers are never going to become millionairs!

Something worth noting is that normally WTC is based on your previous financial year's gross pay, but if you expect to bring in less than the previous year, payments are based on the current tax year and this is where such recipients have to be very careful at how much o/t they choose to do. For PT staff who are more likely to do prep and major extended delivery during Xmas pressure, those few weeks can make a massive difference to the average hours worked, often meaning they need to refuse o/t towards the end of the tax year in March... Otherwise they get paid extra by RM (in an ideal world with no fudging of docket sheets), only to end up with an overpayment of WTC which sends that extra money straight to HMRC.

I'm sure many are in the same boat as myself, but I hate how pre-P&L I can easily attain a 30-hour average working week (to get all WTC entitlements), yet when the P&L revision kicks in managers are saying they cannot increase the contract hours to 30. All we want is a decent wage with holiday and sick pay based on what we actually work (upto 39/40 hours) rather than these pathetic unachievable PT contracts, I'm persoanlly looking forward to landing them in it legitimately come P&L... Why would I want to do o/t after a 7.5 hour day, or come in on a day off to bail them out on the heavy days?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Could and I say could the reason be that he has chosen to claim tax credits over overtime is because Tax Credits are guaranteed to some level where as docket isn't. Yes docket is generally available, but what if he gets all he can this year and thereby affects his Tax Credits for next year.

Then what happens next year when perhaps we are sold and the new owner puts an embargo on ALL overtime.

The guy who has been taking tax credits over docket will be fine as in the previous year he has not exceeded the threshold.

The guy who has been working overtime and exceeded the limits will be struggling.

For me its up to the individual, there are benefits and drawbacks on both sides. However, one thing I have learned over the years is that if you base your own values on just monetary and material wealth then you'll be chasing your own tail for ever. Just as if you base your life entirely on getting what you can you will be seen as a sponger. For me the ideal is somewhere in between and a good work/life balance and earning enough so I don't descend into a debt spiral, but have enough on hand for emergencies, and that's where I am, and long may it continue.

[music4essex]

For me its up to the individual, there are benefits and drawbacks on both sides. However, one thing I have learned over the years is that if you base your own values on just monetary and material wealth then you'll be chasing your own tail for ever. Just as if you base your life entirely on getting what you can you will be seen as a sponger. For me the ideal is somewhere in between and a good work/life balance and earning enough so I don't descend into a debt spiral, but have enough on hand for emergencies, and that's where I am, and long may it continue.

I tottally agree, I many years back use to do O/T for the nice holidays, when son came along we both decided to just do normal hours to both look after our son one on earlies one on lates and we got WTC. Forward 10 yrs and I am now on my own bringing up my son on F/T hrs don't do any O/t because when i did tax credit folks decided I earned to much and took it back off me
but do get CTC and a little WTC, I have a mortgage and all the bills, but we just manage and sometimes have a holiday .

Essex mum