Suspended sentence for thieving postie

[DGP1]

How little you actually know about people Andy, tell me how locking people away stops crime? You view is typical of the right wing/Daily Mail/hang them all attitude that has been tried but has failed to reduce any crimes, the lock them away brigade doesn't have any answers, they just want to lock people up and ignore anything behind the crime or what is the best punishment for that crime, and for the vast majority of postal thieves they're not hardened criminals but stupid people who made stupid mistakes and locking them up does no good, I doubt they would commit the crimes again whether they went to jail or not.

[andy2007]

You may be right. But if someone was tempted (as a lot have been), and had to face hardship if caught, instead of a slapped wrist, and a brief article in the paper, which will be in the recycling by the day after. Don't you think they would think twice?
Also, you're missing the whole point of my previous post. I don't want to make people suffer unduly. I want there to be a DETERRANT to try to prevent them doing it in the first place. There's a BIG difference between that, and the reactionary fools who take those sensationalist papers seriously.

So tell me. What do you suggest as a deterrant?
We need something, because there has been a steady decline in morality. When I was a child, we didn't have old people scared to leave their homes at night (many still left their doors unlocked when they went out!). Armed robberies were quite rare (there've been 3 in the past 2 and a half years at my local shop!). Getting into trouble with the Police was something to be ashamed of, but not anymore. Need I go on?

You say that we should be looking at the causes of the crimes. Are you talking about the sob stories, like "oh I'm so hard done by, I just had to steal, it's not my fault!". Twice in my life, I've faced severe financial problems. And despite having to cope with Depression, and struggling to pay the bills. I've never stolen, either from work, or anywhere else. Last time I had this type of trouble, it took me years to get everything paid off (my Wife lost her job when her employer went bust, and hadn't taken out PPI. So we still had to pay her loans off, with only 1 wage). I can't go into details on here about why we're in this mess again, because it would give away my on-line identity. But suffice to say that it was due to an unforseen, large drop in income.

So tell me. Why is it acceptable for someone to steal from the Mail, because they're facing financial problems?
I haven't. So what's the difference between me, the vast majority of our Colleagues, and them?
The difference, is that we were brought up properly, to be honest. They weren't, and took the easy way out, dragging our reputations through the mud in the process. And far worse, they caused upset and disapointment to ordinary members of the Public, who were relying on them.

You may well be right, that locking them up won't work. But what else can we do?
There needs to be a penalty harsh enough to make them think twice, without going too far. We seem to have gone from one extreme to the other in 200 years. We've gone from the dark days of Capital Punnishment, and Flogging. To a slap on the wrist. What we need is some middle ground, where there's enough of a deterrant to prevent first time offenders from becoming Criminals. But not going too far, and resorting to cruel punnishments, which can't be reversed, if there's a miscarriage of Justice.

[axeman]

And a deterant would be.................. to treat your staff properly give them the money you owe them and of course pay them a decent pay , just rememer not all live without debt be it maybe even just a mortgauge think what if

[andy2007]

And a deterant would be.................. to treat your staff properly give them the money you owe them and of course pay them a decent pay , just rememer not all live without debt be it maybe even just a mortgauge think what if

I take it you didn't bother to read the whole post then?
I'm in serious financial difficulties. For example, I'm currently 3 weeks behind on the rent, and struggling to pay other bills too. And yet I don't steal..... Why, you may ask?
Because I was brought up to be honest, and if neccessary, do without.

Besides. These thefts aren't unique to RM. People steal from other Employers too. They even go into the local shop with a knife, and hold a shop Manager by her hair, with a knife at her throad, while her daughter is forced to open the safe! I'm quite sure that if that scum had been caught, he'd have had some similar sob story about how he's so disadvantaged, because he can't afford Sky Sports, and the latest Reeboks. And yes. That did happen a couple of years ago. And they weren't able to identify him, because his face was covered.

Now obviously, there are many who really ARE living in poverty. I don't consider myself to be living in poverty yet, because I can just about hold my hear above water, and can even afford the Internet. But there are those who can barely afford to put food on the table. There are even a lot of people who're homeless. Now if someone who's homeless, started squatting (in other words stealing a house), or stealing food, or whatever. Then they should be given help, not punnishment, because they have no choice if they want to survive. But when was the last time you heard of one of these cases, where they didn't have a Home, a TV, The Internet, etc., etc.. That's not stealing to survive, that's stealing to live beyond your means. A totally different situation.

[fishtank]

There is no stigma attached to crime any more Andy,that's where the problem lies.
It is just seen as a natural,if a little extreme version of showing a little enterprise.
If you constantly champion the "greed is good" culture and measure success purely in monetary terms the lines will blur between what is acceptable and what isn't.
Having a moral compass is now seen as a sign of weakness.
Putting people in jail is only a deterrent if it is a) so bad in there that you don't want to go back and b) socially embarrassing.
It is neither...and then of course there is the issue of putting minor inexperienced criminals in with professionals...it's not the smartest move.

[andy2007]

You're right about not mixing petty criminals with hardened ones. But that's why we have several categories of Prison. We have the "Open Prisons", for those who're minor criminals, or those who're hardened, but soon to be released. Which I think is where a lot of the problems lie, as it does mix them with the petty criminals. Although by then, the hardened criminals are being careful to look good for the Prole Board, so they're less of a threat. But there has to be something we can do. If not Prison, then what?
There has to be something that can be done. One of my relatives was a Prison Officer for most of his working life (he retired some time ago), so I'm well aware of the changes in the conditions in those places. How they've gone from Victorian relics, where the conditions were terrible (e.g. having to use a bucket, then "slop out"), to having proper toilets in the Cells. Now obviously, I wouldn't want things to go back to the days where people were treated like that. You'll never rehabilitate anyone, if you treat them like they're less than Human. But on the other hand, it's going too far, giving them TVs, and in some cases, even games consoles. But where is the middle ground?
It must exist. But what is it?
It's vital IMHO that we find some kind of deterrant, which is bad enough to prevent people starting a life of crime in the first place, without dehumanising them if they're caught. At the moment, we've gone too far in one direction. But it's equally important not to go too far the other way. A good deterrant is far more effective than any punnishment imaginable.

[axeman]

Dont think for one moment i condone this type of behaviour but the question is what some people will do when desperate and in a rut i'm lucky not to be in a postion like you or anyone having slight cash flow problems but ..what if they paid the colleuge shares money would this have hapened ....who knows but ..........there for the grace of god go i

[TeeferTiger]

And so this is where my suggestion of sticking all the baddies onto the Shetland isles, all the addicts into hospitals to rehabilitate them, make prisons into proper prisons-not holiday camps, and rehabilitate people when they're inside rather than letting them sit on their a*ses doing nowt. I would say make them work, but with so many out of work at the moment, that would just be taking money away from someone who hasn't committed a crime. There are cycles of people who are just in and out of prison partly because it's better than being on the outside and partly because they can't cope. It would be more cost effective to spend money getting them sorted out, than to have them keep going back to prison.

[stokes11eg]

Dont think for one moment i condone this type of behaviour but the question is what some people will do when desperate and in a rut i'm lucky not to be in a postion like you or anyone having slight cash flow problems but ..what if they paid the colleuge shares money would this have hapened ....who knows but ..........there for the grace of god go i

Have to say I'm with Andy on this---you can justify anytihng if you want to! WEe are in a position of trust-----there is always a right way to solve your problems, however bad, and a wrong way---stealing is wrong.

[TeeferTiger]

Dont think for one moment i condone this type of behaviour but the question is what some people will do when desperate and in a rut i'm lucky not to be in a postion like you or anyone having slight cash flow problems but ..what if they paid the colleuge shares money would this have hapened ....who knows but ..........there for the grace of god go i

Have to say I'm with Andy on this---you can justify anytihng if you want to! WEe are in a position of trust-----there is always a right way to solve your problems, however bad, and a wrong way---stealing is wrong.

http://youtu.be/O6_P_ZWwJ3Q" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[TeeferTiger]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=badong" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sorry, that just really tittled me when you said stealing is bad and wrong and that part from the film Kung Pow popped into my head.

[stokes11eg]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=badong

Sorry, that just really tittled me when you said stealing is bad and wrong and that part from the film Kung Pow popped into my head.

Good one!

[andy2007]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=badong

Sorry, that just really tittled me when you said stealing is bad and wrong and that part from the film Kung Pow popped into my head.

I don't know about that. It reminds me of Newspeak. The language created by the fictional group Ingsoc, from the book 1984. Although I agree with the sentiment.