Dismissed

[flaminmoses]

Maybe Bitchface your an indoor worker , you need to wise up fella because it could be you tomorrow who's getting dismissed unfairly and I for one hope you do with your childish remarks . Rm are issuing stage warnings for any illnesses serious and not serious so wheres the fairness in that , you will one day be I'll and let's hope for yourself it's not serious , obviously you don't understand planta facilitiesand I'm not going to educate you , if rm knew I had a problem they should have offered me light duties and investigated my injury , it's no different to you my friend slipping over on some ice they would investigate that accident , my gp said it's wear and tear through my job and that's good enough for me over an I'll educated man

I know this may not be of comfort but RM have lost quite a few Employment tribunals regarding dismissal for sickness cases, because they dont even follow their own rules on sickness.

have they??
im quite interested because im going to a tribunal next month.

had a dodgy knee for a few months.....got sacked for wilfull delay desite the ongoing problems.


vrs on the way..................you make your own mind up

where are the union when you most need em.

[keithposty]

You must go to the appeal but meantime, you should submit a claim to the Employment Tribunal for constructive dismissal. Your employer knew about your health problem and had a duty of care to ensure that you were properly equipped to do your job. If they would not allow you to wear your own shoes, then they SHOULD have provided you with RM shoes/boots within a reasonable period of time. Two or three months waiting for appropriate footwear is UNREASONABLE and appears to have been the cause of the exacerbation of your symptoms. Do NOT wait for the appeal, although you should attend it, but you MUST submit an ET claim immediately due to the time limits on when ETs will be accepted - do it online tonight and the best of luck to you.

THIS IS NOT CONSTRUCTIVE DISMISSAL

you get one chance at this, well two if you include the EAP

ONLY 3 % OF CONSTRUCTIVE DISMISSAL CLAIMS ARE SUCCESSFUL

this claim is for UNFAIR dismissal and i repeat UNFAIR DISMISSAL

i agree with the route cause anaylisis though in that footware is classed as PPE and is a matter for the conduct code

ROYAL MAIL CAN NOT HAVE THERE CAKE AND EAT IT

you must do the ET1 claim no later than three months less one day from date of dismissal/termination of contract

[Jayfin]

I should have my appeal hearing meeting notes in a couple of days , I've got to sign and amend anything that's not correct , and then I will hear a few days after that of rm decision , my manager as said he would try to help because he thinks it's unfair .is there anything he can do at this stage to help .!

[Tman]

If it goes to court the case will probably hinge on the basic question of "did the employee do enough to highlight there was a problem with the shoes"?

To reply something like "I asked the DOM on several occasions for new shoes" won't be good enough for the tribunal, and their solicitor will twist that to " the DOM was verbally asked about other shoes over the period in question, but being the busy manager that he is there were always other more pressing matters to attend to. In the meantime the employee jeopardised his own health by continuing to wear shoes he clearly considered (or knew) to be unsuitable for his feet."


Were HR etc contacted regarding the shoes or the problems they caused? Was the call logged or letter copied? Official union assistance requested?

It seems the IHR process pretty much ran it's course, so any successful outcome for you now will likely depend on whether you can show any input on your part which was ignored, though if your defence is simply "RM supplied the shoes and they did my feet in" you're done for..

[General Mannerheim]

If it goes to court the case will probably hinge on the basic question of "did the employee do enough to highlight there was a problem with the shoes"?

To reply something like "I asked the DOM on several occasions for new shoes" won't be good enough for the tribunal, and their solicitor will twist that to " the DOM was verbally asked about other shoes over the period in question, but being the busy manager that he is there were always other more pressing matters to attend to. In the meantime the employee jeopardised his own health by continuing to wear shoes he clearly considered (or knew) to be unsuitable for his feet."


Were HR etc contacted regarding the shoes or the problems they caused? Was the call logged or letter copied? Official union assistance requested?

It seems the IHR process pretty much ran it's course, so any successful outcome for you now will likely depend on whether you can show any input on your part which was ignored, though if your defence is simply "RM supplied the shoes and they did my feet in" you're done for..

Are you seriously expecting a tribunal to believe that a manager `was busy` ha ha .

[keithposty]

does your office not have a H&S REP who would have investigated this matter and highlighted royal mails failings

also, being a H&S MATTER, WHY DID THE MANAGERS NOT INFORM THE H&S REP let alone the problems with the IR rep during the weekly resource meetings

no matter how you look at this, royal mail has failed to follow correct procedure

[TrueBlueTerrier]

It seems the IHR process pretty much ran it's course, so any successful outcome for you now will likely depend on whether you can show any input on your part which was ignored, though if your defence is simply "RM supplied the shoes and they did my feet in" you're done for..

I thought he was dismissed on his sick record Or have I got the wrong end of another stick

[not me]

I should have my appeal hearing meeting notes in a couple of days , I've got to sign and amend anything that's not correct , and then I will hear a few days after that of rm decision , my manager as said he would try to help because he thinks it's unfair .is there anything he can do at this stage to help .!

read them carefull,get someone else to read them
clarifiy and correct everything that requires it
mnie were full of mistakes and ommisions

[Tman]

I thought he was dismissed on his sick record Or have I got the wrong end of another stick

OK, the process to get rid of him because of his sick record reached it's conclusion. Does it change anything?

[hantsman]

I should have my appeal hearing meeting notes in a couple of days , I've got to sign and amend anything that's not correct , and then I will hear a few days after that of rm decision , my manager as said he would try to help because he thinks it's unfair .is there anything he can do at this stage to help .!

Put your ET1 claim in ASAP, do not believe RM when they say a few days, they can drag the appeal out so you miss the deadline for the ET.

[liamlayor]

You must go to the appeal but meantime, you should submit a claim to the Employment Tribunal for constructive dismissal. Your employer knew about your health problem and had a duty of care to ensure that you were properly equipped to do your job. If they would not allow you to wear your own shoes, then they SHOULD have provided you with RM shoes/boots within a reasonable period of time. Two or three months waiting for appropriate footwear is UNREASONABLE and appears to have been the cause of the exacerbation of your symptoms. Do NOT wait for the appeal, although you should attend it, but you MUST submit an ET claim immediately due to the time limits on when ETs will be accepted - do it online tonight and the best of luck to you.

THIS IS NOT CONSTRUCTIVE DISMISSAL

you get one chance at this, well two if you include the EAP

ONLY 3 % OF CONSTRUCTIVE DISMISSAL CLAIMS ARE SUCCESSFUL

this claim is for UNFAIR dismissal and i repeat UNFAIR DISMISSAL

i agree with the route cause anaylisis though in that footware is classed as PPE and is a matter for the conduct code

ROYAL MAIL CAN NOT HAVE THERE CAKE AND EAT IT

you must do the ET1 claim no later than three months less one day from date of dismissal/termination of contract

Sorry, Keithposty, you're quite correct, I just had constructive dismissal on my mind at the time. As you say though, he should make sure he submits his ET claim within the time limits. Royal Mail will hope he doesn't though and wwill try to stall him and, from experience, the Union will be no help whatsoever.

[blackadder]

thing is, why did he get a 1st and 2nd stage warnings. if it for same illness that he got the sack for then he got grounds for winning a appeal at et. if for differant reasons then no hope soz

[fishtank]

http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKEAT/20 ... _2711.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We do not seek to differ from the Tribunal's majority view. The policy is based on mitigating factors being taken into account. The view of Mr Poore was that, and we read his note, that "there was no substantial mitigation available to Mr Smith".
The majority members were clearly disagreeing with that view and correctly held that if there is a policy which, although primarily based on making sure that employees do attend as frequently as possible so that the requirement of Royal Mail to carry out its deliveries can be fulfilled, specifically provides for mitigating factors to be taken into account, then Mr Poore was acting unreasonably in disregarding the mitigation in this case.

[Jayfin]

Blockader hope thi s helps I was on stage one for other illnesses , then I got planta facilities which I had time off for which triggered a stage 2 , why I think there's mitigating circumstances is , I was waiting on new footwear on order , I was wearing my old worn down issued boots as rm require you to do ,I
Otherwise your not insured if you do have an accident . Policemans heel got gradually worse resulting in me having time off which triggered a stage two warning , my gp had told me its a result of my job constant walking , so for a quick fix I had injections so I could get back to work and it may reoccur which it did . On my return to work interview which I had two weeks later after returning to work I think my manager should have investigated it more because I said it could reoccur And it did after the interview he didn't do nothing , I ordered my boots in June didn't get them until October , i think it's a snowball effect if theyd reacted at the time I told them I wouldn't have got a stage 2 warning because since I've been getting regular footwear and still having injections I've not had a problem ,

[roger]

I don`t know if the experience I had will be of help but here goes.A women at my MC was told that she was to be medically retired against her will,when she told me the details it seemed to me that RM was at fault long before It got to that stage.She had left the business and was appealing her medical retirement,I suggested that she put in a grievance not against her M/R which has it`s own appeal process,but that RM`s failures long before had put her in that situation,so in effect she had two processes going on at the same time, the grievance which I spoke at on her behalf went to a stage 3 before her final M/R appeal was heard.On the day of her final M/R appeal at which i was not present,when she went into the appeal they informed her that the stage 3 grievance manager had informed them that he has upheld her grievance and that she was to be reinstated.So within a couple of weeks she was back at work,had to pay back her M/R monies but was awarded a few thousand compensation. This result totally changed the way they treat DDA staff in the MC for the better.You may be able to do the same thing,If you do,maybe you should get some help from citizens advice to write up the grievance as you need to get it watertight.