Grievance procedure

[prowler]

Prowler,

What is the unfair treatment?

Charged under the conduct code. One other person charged but never received formal interview. Other persons doing the same not charged.
Other issues as well which I don't want to go into on this site. Got to say, any faith I had in the union has now evaporated.

[walkertom]

Hi there,

negative experiences of the grievance procedure seem to be very common. I'm in the same boat with managers defying business policy. Would you believe blatant lying too?

There are very god points made in these replies and I recommend the diary for recording all incidents. The advice about employment tribunals is spot on. Do your homework and there will be fewer stones for them to hide under.

Even though it's hard work, you have to use the grievance procedure. Good luck and keep on keeping on!

[keithposty]

with myself looking in from the outside i can see the frustration of staff and lack of confidence in the local reps

the reps must share some of this along with the branch secretary

EDUCATION IS THE KEY IN PLACES LIKE ALVESCOT IN OXFORDSHIRE AND THE ELSTEAD IN BOURNMOUTH

how can reps get the confidence of the staff if they do not know them self

in my office they had planned to bring in part of the revision as a trial run. they totally messed up on the health and safety procedure (SAC 3)

I POINT BLANK REFUSED THEM TO BRING IN PART OF THE REVISION.

senior heads would roll over this frack up so after a bit of horse trading to get me to sign it off i got 5 fixed term staff onto full time contracts

ITS ALL ABOUT CONFIDENCE and training and to have the BALLS to do what is right

[fishtank]

The failure of the grievance procedure is a symptom of management's overall contempt for any agreement and HQ's lack of courage in making Royal Mail's senior management team accountable for the actions of those below them.

I have never known,seen or heard of a company that allows it's local management teams to basically do what they please in the manner this company does.
Either senior management know about it and happily sanction it which makes them liable,don't know about it and are therefore incompetent or know about it but cannot control it which makes them both liable and incompetent.
It's long past time HQ asked some serious questions of Moya,Mark and the gang,there is no point in having a multitude of agreements,guidelines and joint statements if management at local and area level are allowed to ignore them.

[keithposty]

its not that line managers, or even DOMS deliberately ignore legislation, IR framework etc

its that they know no different

managers get brought in from the outside with no understanding of a trade union involvement in an industry,
failed postmen being made up and just going through the motions by a wing and a prayer

line managers are no more than figure heads unable to make a basic decision without asking for permission from the DSM AS THEY KNOW NO BETTER

i make mince meat on anything they try and introduce outside the IR FRAMEWORK and i do it not by being militant, but by negotiation and quoting statute legislation

as stated

education is the key and we have to educate members as well as managers

[fishtank]

its not that line managers, or even DOMS deliberately ignore legislation, IR framework etc

its that they know no different

I'm sorry Keith but i don't believe that for a second.
Management have an entire support structure behind them and every document available at their fingertips through the intranet.
If a manager tells you they don't know a particular procedure it's either because they are too lazy to look it up or they are using ignorance as a weapon.
Managers constantly ignore agreements,guidelines.the IR framework and legislation not because they are stupid but because they are not stupid.
Do not underestimate the enemy Keith or congratulate yourself too much,they aren't as ignorant as they make out.
No one is that ignorant.

[MinisterofCucumber]

i make mince meat on anything they try and introduce outside the IR FRAMEWORK and i do it not by being militant, but by negotiation and quoting statute legislation

A militant is someone who is prepared to fight. You are militant and all reps should be militant. Members want the Union to defend them. They don't want pussy reps.

The IR Framework is an instrument of oppression. It removes all the power from the democratically accountable local reps and gives it to Branch nominated time servers who never have to face elections.

Why would anyone even wipe their arse with the IR Framework?

[prowler]

i make mince meat on anything they try and introduce outside the IR FRAMEWORK and i do it not by being militant, but by negotiation and quoting statute legislation

A militant is someone who is prepared to fight. You are militant and all reps should be militant. Members want the Union to defend them. They don't want pussy reps.

The IR Framework is an instrument of oppression. It removes all the power from the democratically accountable local reps and gives it to Branch nominated time servers who never have to face elections.

Why would anyone even wipe their arse with the IR Framework?

Have to agree with you 100% there my friend.

[MinisterofCucumber]

May we have an emoticon that describes "old guard f**k off"?

[fishtank]

May we have an emoticon that descibes "old guard f**k off"?

Who do you consider to be the "old guard" Minister?
Who exactly are you telling to f**k off?
It's easy to be militant when your target is so vague they don't even know they are a target.

[MinisterofCucumber]

The old guard are the authoritarian election dodgers that make policies to benefit their mates like the career average pension deal that replaced final salary pensions.

[MinisterofCucumber]

[Cheetah]

I do have to agree with Keith a lot here...... These jumped up often half wits who call themselves managers 9 times out of 10 either mess up procedurally or mess up because they don't know the procedure. They are also too idle or stuck up themselves to put the time in to find and implement correct procedure. So the best way to fight them is to trip them up using their rules and in my experiences that proves so easy.
The problem a lot of the time lies with weak members not prepared to stand up and be counted, they love to make the bullets then slither down in the trenches when time comes to fire them, even winding people up to fight their battles for them. I don't consider myself a militant (combative, fighting aggressive) but I do stand up for myself and others, but just don't understand how much flack some folk will take off unfair, unjust managers.
Things will only ever change if their abuse of the rules, ignoring of agreements etc is constantly exposed and this primarily has to be done by us members....

[fishtank]

I think the problem is though amongst members who have actually used the grievance procedure and those are by nature people who do stand up for themselves you will find very little support for the process itself.
So you have a situation where you have a procedure that's failing the very best members we have and it's not because managers don't know what they are doing...it's because managers know exactly what they are doing.
We don't need to educate those members we need a better system of protection and more accountability of management in general.
We certainly don't need to educate those managers...we need to find a way to make RM control them.

[MinisterofCucumber]

The Union hates the Grievance Procedure because it gives more power to an individual than collective bargaining. The CWU wants to 'own' their members and management want this too because it means that laws that uphold an individual's rights can be bypassed.