Any news from pec meeting of 24th?

[Glenno]

Could it be that the Deal is done? but no one wants to tell us Maybe we will have to wait until after Tues Meeting or maybe there is nuttin to tell

[dvbuk55]

Could it be that the Deal is done? but no one wants to tell us Maybe we will have to wait until after Tues Meeting or maybe there is nuttin to tell

Perhaps there was a hint in Dave Wards address today on the intricacies of negotiating in 2012 and the need to produce BT2010.

[Glenno]

Perhaps you are right

[Martin Walsh]

There are 3 joint statements which resolve the following The Flow project , the 100 BSI and a new model week formula. These will go to the Postal Executive next week.

[dvbuk55]

There are 3 joint statements which resolve the following The Flow project , the 100 BSI and a new model week formula. These will go to the Postal Executive next week.

Good news there then - just as a matter of interest, why not make the joint statements open to a wider audience..................then the PEC could be judged on whether the decision they take is justified and correct. Or are the joint statements already binding? Because if they are joint statements we must assume that the hierarchy have already given their blessing and we already know what that means...........the three ringed circus routine.

What about WCM, is that still being discussed or is it being ignored?

[Glenno]

There are 3 joint statements which resolve the following The Flow project , the 100 BSI and a new model week formula. These will go to the Postal Executive next week.

My concern is that tke PEC are so far OUT of TOUCH that the ordinary member couldn't give a s**t
start looking individually at the 400 offices that have gone into Revision mode and try to get a revision best policy, dosn't suite all, but hey does BT2010

[graffi]

Why not wait until it is communicated before you guys slag it off ??

[fishtank]

Why not wait until it is communicated before you guys slag it off ??

We better not...we might be accused of bullying.

[dvbuk55]

Why not wait until it is communicated before you guys slag it off ??

Why are we waiting, Why are we waiting.

[Godric]

Are we still getting the free "Eat as much as U like" vouchers from Greggs though? What if there isn't a Greggs with 10 miles though....oh yeaah winners and losers.

The closest I get to Greggs is their frozen sausage rolls from Iceland I guess I'll be one of the losers

you couldn't pay me to eat a greggs suasage roll yuck .... 25 years ago i would have as the filling was edible back then unlike that enimic sausage they have in it .... it gies me the boak just typing about it

[Martin Walsh]

As I posted last week the aim was to resolve those issues before the end of the week. The words will now go to the PEC and if agreed by them then it will be sent out to Branch`s to then inform the members.

Dvbuk world class mail`s is being discussed and progress is being made but the priority was the delivery issues.

Now Glenno you say the Postal Executive are out of touch with the ordinary member , now this is a debate worth having. So tell me how many of those 400 delivery method revision offices have you been too. Most of the postal executive have been to a few witnessing first hand the issues. Equally on these visits they speak to members and reps and of course they speak to the area reps.

Lots of the postal executive understand the concerns of those offices who dont like the delivery method equipment , cannot understand the scientific revision methods be that geo route or IWT. Cannot understand the levels of absorption or the fact that Royal Mail stand by and allow offices to fail for months on end.

Now most on here do not visit offices and rely on information from indivduals who come on here on other offices and there is no check on whether this information is factual or not and whether the problem is resolved or not.

For the record I have argued to national officers and senior managers that the Delivery Revision process which was delivery best praticise is a crock of s**t and needs to be changed. However Royal Mail for whatever reason do not seem to be up for that change. So what would you suggest we do , I dont sense that people are neccessary up for balloting or we would have had numerous requests by now.

[fishtank]

I am extremely nervous of the piecemeal resolution to these issues.
If that's the New Indoor Delivery Methods, Setting the Indoor Performance for Delivery (BSI) and Model Week Guidance resolved what motivation do Royal Mail have to resolve the real issues that members are struggling with?
The daily bullying and harassment from management with management in some areas completely ignoring any agreement and of course moving start times outside the revision process.

How many of these issues have really been resolved in the 8 or 9 months they have been involved in talks?

• Agreements to secure the Unions policy as set out in PEC Doc 52/11 (response to Royal Mail’s Business Plan and Colleagueshare announcements) published to branches at the National Briefing.
NO
• Agreements to extend and strengthen job security commitments with the absolute need to avoid compulsory redundancies in light of the new Business Plan and Governments privatisation agenda.
NO
• An agreed joint action plan to get all Business Transformation revisions back on track. Central to this and in line with the agreement is the need to finally ensure a fair and manageable workload for all employees. This means an end to the unacceptable managerial pressures being placed on our members on a daily basis. Instead offices must be run on the basis of agreed local and nationally co-ordinated resourcing and manpower planning.
NO
• Confirmation that our shared vision of modernisation is still at the core of all company and Government plans.
NO
• Confirmation that Royal Mail will remain the sole provider of the USO within the UK and that Royal Mail will continue to operate as an end to end service provider with no further break up or sale of the individual Businesses or functions within the group.
NO
• Agreement that there will be no casualisation of the workforce and that the delivery model set out in the National Agreement will continue to be supported throughout the duration of the new Business Plan.
NO
• Agreement that in addition to the Government taking on the historical pension deficit, CWU members pension entitlements will be fully protected including the use of RPI as the measure of uprating pensions.
NO
• In order to create a culture of mutual interest we need to reach agreement on a new form of governance including consideration of the principles of industrial democracy. This means ending the continuing command and control managerial culture that has been a constant obstacle to progress.
NO

All we seem to get is dribs and drabs when the whole thing should have been resolved at once or not at all.
How much difference these joint statements on The Flow project , the 100 BSI and a new model week formula, will make to individual members is unclear but i very much doubt offices will be revisited with these new guidelines if more investment is needed.
I also doubt that it will change the mindset of managers in areas where they are basically allowed free reign to ignore any agreement that comes their way.

We needed a new delivery agreement,a new relationship agreement and a new financial agreement,what we seem to be getting is sticking plasters for the old wounds with more science added to the ridiculous and quite frankly for a local rep,overwhelming amount we have already.
Royal Mail have exploited weakness brought about by the BT2010 agreement,it has taken the will to fight from a great deal of the membership,certainly at national level if not locally and RM are now reaping the rewards.
The change in the public face of Dave Ward over the last couple of years is remarkable,his latest video felt like Alan Leighton had scripted it....even to the point of referring to the membership as "our people",i almost threw up.

[Lincox]

I think your first point says it all Fish. The endless bullying and the forcing of unmanageable work loads are the prime reasons that there is no will within the staff of Royal Mail to pull together and make modernisation a success. In particular, I cannot recall at any time the PEC standing up and denouncing the abuse that the membership is having to deal with on a daily basis. The unbelievable arrogance of management in failing to deal with 000s of grievance claims within Royal Mail guidelines, gone unchecked by our union leaders. The PEC should without any further delay, place a complete embargo on any further revision activity, world class mail activity, indoor activity, until Royal Mail management can prove that the abuse of it,s staff by management has STOPPED. Not an agreement to talk, not a joint review, but undeniable evidence that this has actually happened on the ground.

[dvbuk55]

All the points ft has made are really the nub of why the membership feel that the leadership and by inference then the PEC ARE out of touch with the shop floor despite the fact of protestations to the contrary. I have seen at first hand the reaction of an Area Rep to difficulties in the delivery offices and it is rather pathetic to see union leaders of sorts take an attitude more suited to managers than someone who is supposed to be looking after the best interest of the membership.

I find it particularly galling that someone who at the inception of BT2010 pronounced it the deal of the century only now to see that it is now that the Delivery Revision process is a load of crap................pity that wasn't evident when the voting was being carried out instead of following the party line. Most of those in deliveries had very grave misgivings about the process and the lack of firm guidelines BEFORE the vote was taken and STILL being argued 20 months down the line, with 1100 offices still to commit.

Does the process need to be revisited - absolutely. Call a halt to all revisions, identify which IS the best practice and try to adopt that as the revision process NOT some half-arsed scheme with P&L, HCTs and LCTs purchased prior to any agreement with the CWU - only for those who see the big picture to state that because they had been purchased we had to go along with it. HOWEVER if we hadn't agreed and been pushed into an agreement by those people who are supposed to be looking after our interests and time had been taken to look at the alternatives - YES A PLAN B - we may well have been in a position to dictate what changes would be acceptable, whereas at the moment it's like Fred Karnos in the workplace as far as managers are concerned.

[Cut Off King]

How quick we forget,

There is no PLAN "B"