How are the National Talks progressing ?

[hans solo]

Everyone can see the same picture , however if you have never been involved in serious negotiations, then maybe you need to take a reality check. Negotations don't mean that whatever one side says be that the CWU or Royal Mail that they get everything they want as that would not be Negotations that would be surrender.

Equally it is very easy for people who do not understand the issues and have strong opinions about the direction the union should take but know they have no responsibility to achieving that direction to criticise and shout betrayal from afar.

There is not another business in the UK which is facing the problems which Royal Mail are. If a private company then we would be in serious trouble as we owe more than the company is worth. There is a cash flow problem with a. 7 billion turnover and a very small operating profit mainly down to assets being sold and GPS that would be concerning form most business.. On top of that revenue is falling combination of the recession and DSA. In addition there has been no decision by the EU on state aid and Camerons veto in Europe might have put that in jeopardy and if so remember Royal Mail have no money to pay the pension deficit past May. There have been a lot of talks on pensions and with of com.

So it is important that people when they comment on what is happening does so knowing the background. it's very easy for posters on here to dismiss the above because they have no responsibility in resolving those issues , the union has to deal with them.

Now in terms of the typical anti London posts well London balloted for strike action if some of you got off your arses and walked the walk instead of talking the talk all the time then you would do the same. Don't criticise members who got big yes votes and got for the first time ever an agreement which lays the way for everyone else on no compulsary redundancies.

In regards to the date of the 16th January there is a joint divisional and pec meeting next Monday. All divisional reps have to do a report on their division and there is now a pro forma which details information on units which has to be completed by Monday.

The reality is that Royal Mail's business plan is not working and needs to be changed. Through Negotations or a row.

bull and shi*e it was irvine and west of scotland who started ind action before london jumped on the bandwagon to look afterthemselves . proof my office now runs with pt majority not the quoted national (sic) average so with the greatest respect you can wipe my arse because you have abandoned your own people for the sake of yourselves

[Body Beyond Repair]

In Ka/DG we've lost 6 reps in the past year says it all really about what the union is now achieveing for the benefit of members .

[clashcityrocker]

In Ka/DG we've lost 6 reps in the past year says it all really about what the union is now achieveing for the benefit of members .

It says a lot about the pressure of being a unit rep, particularly on the West Coast of Scotland at the moment.
I wouldn't doubt the support from Area Level for your reps, but I would question the behaviour of our Divisional Reps in the face of Royal Mail's constant moving of the goalposts.
The National Agreement appears to be in tatters.
Do both sides perhaps want a little bit of Industrial Action?

[fishtank]

The National Agreement appears to be in tatters.
Do both sides perhaps want a little bit of Industrial Action?

Both sides want a new agreement.
What both sides want from the new agreement is the question although from our point of view why bother?
The last agreement might as well have been written in Chinese for all the attention Royal Mail Scotland paid to it.
The Divisional situation is,as you say...not very clever.

[Body Beyond Repair]

Clash, never had any issues with area rep but above that level a do question the thought process .Members just see the union as a mouthpiece for management now.Change from within is needed.

[Body Beyond Repair]

Fish....not very clever......is so understated when it comes to divisional!!!!!

[mailmonkey]

.Members just see the union as a mouthpiece for management now.

Yeah, Change is needed or we will be as good as deunionised sooner than seems possible. We'll be unionised in name only.

[dvbuk55]

.Members just see the union as a mouthpiece for management now.

Yeah, Change is needed or we will be as good as deunionised sooner than seems possible. We'll be unionised in name only.

Now I wonder if that could be quantified?

Some areas treated better than others?
Subs keep going up?
Little or no communication from the top?
Poor organisation nationally?
Agreements infringements ignored?
Members ignored?
Falling membership?

Has it happened already but nobody bothered to tell us?

[Glenno]

Now I wonder if that could be quantified?

Some areas treated better than others?
Subs keep going up?
Little or no communication from the top?
Poor organisation nationally?
Agreements infringements ignored?
Members ignored?
Falling membership?

Has it happened already but nobody bothered to tell us?
And there you have it my friend..... divide & conquer

[Martin Walsh]

Hans solo Upper Edmonton went out on strike in March 2009 and took 3 24 hours of strike action. All of the other London offices 115 delivery offices , 3 mail centres , 2 RDCs , 4 vocs and LAMU all got yes votes the week before annual conference and then took our first day of strike action the Friday after conference, we took including the two national days of strike action 20 days of strikes.

At no point did I say only London took strike action , I only said that people who were willing to take strike action last June on the Mail centre dispute. in 2009 the offices a number of offices in Scotland , Bristol , Plymouth and other offices took strike action in support of the national union and opposed Royal Mail's policy of wanting to introduce their business plan without agreement andn without any pay rises or benefits.

However the reason why the London dispute was dealt with first cause conference recognised the threat of compulsory redundancies and that London mail centres and Rathbone place has just got yes votes for strike action.

[dvbuk55]

And there you have it my friend..... divide & conquer

Well let's also consider if the modernisation plan is allowed to continue until 2015 without any realignment of hours and payment for revisions withheld for another 3 years.
That would mean that some would be working 40 hours and some at 39 with the consequence that those on 39 hours with the pay increases would be paid a higher hourly rate for up to 3 years and that monies for revisions may never be paid. So certainly divided by a considerable margin but I would hesitate at the conquered.

[dvbuk55]

However the reason why the London dispute was dealt with first cause conference recognised the threat of compulsory redundancies and that London mail centres and Rathbone place has just got yes votes for strike action.

Now is that a NATIONAL settlement on compulsory redundancies dingo or just the London Division?

[hans solo]

says it all when he states " the london dispute " which is i would assume covered by the london union and not the same one were stuck with

[Martin Walsh]

It does make me laugh if 10 offices in Scotland all balloted for strike action would you call it a national dispute or would you call it a dispute involving some offices in Scotland ?

For the record , South London Mail Centre , East London Mail Centre , Mount Pleasant , Rathbone Place and 12 distribution hubs in London got a yes vote for strike action as a result of Royal Mail`s plans for London which would have led to complusory redundnacies for the first time in Royal Mail. Annual Conference recognised this and supported a policy where no one would do the work from London if they went on strike.

Now let me ask you when Burslem went out on strike did we all say well you cant say its a Burslem dispute , no we did not. Disputes involving groups of offices from an area are normally call their dispute , so if Bristol are out on strike you would call it the Bristol Strike not a national strike and if their is a settlement on that dispute then the members who have been balloted get the final say.

Now Dvbuk the no complusory redundnacies committment was for the London Mail Closure programme only and whilst it is the aim of the CWU to get that throughout the reality is it only applies to the London Mail Centre clousres. It does not apply to the London Delivery Offices or anyother offices.

[fishtank]

Now Dvbuk the no complusory redundnacies committment was for the London Mail Closure programme only and whilst it is the aim of the CWU to get that throughout the reality is it only applies to the London Mail Centre clousres. It does not apply to the London Delivery Offices or anyother offices.

It's ok though the rest of us.London Delivery Offices included still have an "overarching objective".
That must mean something...to someone....somewhere.