WHY SHOULD I ACCEPT A PAY CUT?

[fishtank]

BUT please can't you see that the attitude that SOME RM workers have cannot be justified?

I'm not here to justify their attitude,quite frankly i couldn't give two f***s about their attitude.
That's the point,i'm paid to do a job,it's not a great job and it's not great pay but i do my bit and go home satisfied that we've both kept to our part of the bargain.
Nowhere in my contract does it say i have to work myself to the bone to cover for other people and nowhere does it say i have the responsibility to judge other people's work rate...
So i don't....end of story.

[MinisterofCucumber]

Man B is arguing that man A is doing half man A's work and man B is doing man B's work and the other half of man A's work.

Management argue that, although man A and man B are competent to do their work, man B is more productive than man A and management have the right to use man B's extra capacity.

Man A and man B work in a section where they have to meet deadlines. Man A is only allocated a few deadline specific tasks while man B is allocated more deadline specific tasks. Man B does a greater range of tasks than man A. Work is delayed because man A can't do it and it has to wait for man B.

If only man B's duty is regraded to a higher grade, work will still have to wait. Management want all the duties in the section to remain on the lower grade. It would be better to upgrade all the duties in the section and expect all duties to include all tasks. Rotation of tasks may show that some duty holders cannot complete some of the tasks in time.

MUP will not be an option. The Union members will raise hell. The victims will be defended and management will probably muck up the procedure.

As management will not be able to MUP anyone in the section, they may have to upgrade almost all of the duties in the section.

Management have been trying to remove man B from the section. Man B has dug his heels in and management have started training most duty holders in all tasks. All duty holders have signed questionnaires agreeing that they can explain how to do all tasks in the section.

Is there any chance now of getting this section's duties upgraded to a higher grade?

[fishtank]

Man B is arguing that man A is doing half man A's work and man B is doing man B's work and the other half of man A's work.

If Man B had any sense he would work at the same rate as Man A forcing management to address the situation by either looking at the performance levels of both or employing Man C.
Man B would rather work himself into the ground,bitch about Man A and go home and take it out on the dog.
Man B is a tool...next question.

[MinisterofCucumber]

Man A and man B may be working at the same rate. However, man B is doing different tasks than man A. Man B's tasks are more complicated than man A's and man A would probably struggle to do them. Man B is arguing that his duty should be upgraded but management have got man A to sign that he understands how to do all the tasks in the section.

Man B's other workmates in the section want their duties to be upgraded. They can all do man B's tasks.

Shouldn't the Union help man A by getting management to agree to allow him to do the tasks he is comfortable with and remain at the lower grade and shouldn't the Union help the others by getting their duties upgraded, or has man A closed off this option by signing that he understands how to do all the tasks?

[markadam1962]

Man A and man B may be working at the same rate. However, man B is doing different tasks than man A. Man B's tasks are more complicated than man A's and man A would probably struggle to do them. Man B is arguing that his duty should be upgraded but management have got man A to sign that he understands how to do all the tasks in the section.

Man B's other workmates in the section want their duties to be upgraded. They can all do man B's tasks.

Shouldn't the Union help man A by getting management to agree to allow him to do the tasks he is comfortable with and remain at the lower grade and shouldn't the Union help the others by getting their duties upgraded, or has man A closed off this option by signing that he understands how to do all the tasks?

Run to mummy at every turn! Some of you workers are deluded. Your Union is supposed to support workers. Well 18000 people have passed through the doors and been treated like dogs not a peep from the mighty CWU! . Mr High and mighty banging about "Mr A and Mr B" seems to have forgotten about "MR Z" that does a considerable amount more than you.

Wake UP!! Your jobs are on the line. Can't you see it?

[Stormproof]

Man A and man B may be working at the same rate. However, man B is doing different tasks than man A. Man B's tasks are more complicated than man A's and man A would probably struggle to do them. Man B is arguing that his duty should be upgraded but management have got man A to sign that he understands how to do all the tasks in the section.

Man B's other workmates in the section want their duties to be upgraded. They can all do man B's tasks.

Shouldn't the Union help man A by getting management to agree to allow him to do the tasks he is comfortable with and remain at the lower grade and shouldn't the Union help the others by getting their duties upgraded, or has man A closed off this option by signing that he understands how to do all the tasks?

Run to mummy at every turn! Some of you workers are deluded. Your Union is supposed to support workers. Well 18000 people have passed through the doors and been treated like dogs not a peep from the mighty CWU! . Mr High and mighty banging about "Mr A and Mr B" seems to have forgotten about "MR Z" that does a considerable amount more than you.

Wake UP!! Your jobs are on the line. Can't you see it?

You had the opportunity to join the union. We pay subs, do you? of course not and yet you expect the union to bail you out

[fishtank]

I do believe the union should have done more to publicise the plight of the Angard staff.
I think it let all of us down union members and prospective union members...i've already gone into that on other threads.
However i have to say personally i'm not really sure how much use someone who constantly points out the deficiencies in others is to the union movement.
Perhaps the CMA is more up your street Mark.

[markadam1962]

You pay subs? For what? There is a page on this forum for "Union" business. All fluff and waffle (cardboard sleeves anyone?) Sorry as and outsider your priorities are on another planet. I have worked for over year for RM and in all that time NOT ONCE have I been approached by anyone from the CWU. Why? because I'm a casual and even to the eyes of the CWU I'm after members jobs so we won't be invited into the "CLUB".

All I see is protectionism! It can't last, if privitisation does happen within the next 18 months are RM employee's really looked after by "mummy"?

[DGP1]

You pay subs? For what? There is a page on this forum for "Union" business. All fluff and waffle (cardboard sleeves anyone?) Sorry as and outsider your priorities are on another planet. I have worked for over year for RM and in all that time NOT ONCE have I been approached by anyone from the CWU. Why? because I'm a casual and even to the eyes of the CWU I'm after members jobs so we won't be invited into the "CLUB".

All I see is protectionism! It can't last, if privitisation does happen within the next 18 months are RM employee's really looked after by "mummy"?

Having a wee drink are we??

You have to remember that this isin't the official CWU website and that anything posted on here is by members in the H&S forum.

Plus, there's nothing to stop you from applying for CWU membership on your own, find the rep and ask for the forms and you'll be paying out your dues in no time, I know some of the reps are quite lazy but there's nothing to stop you from initiating things.

[Stormproof]

You pay subs? For what? There is a page on this forum for "Union" business. All fluff and waffle (cardboard sleeves anyone?) Sorry as and outsider your priorities are on another planet. I have worked for over year for RM and in all that time NOT ONCE have I been approached by anyone from the CWU. Why? because I'm a casual and even to the eyes of the CWU I'm after members jobs so we won't be invited into the "CLUB".

All I see is protectionism! It can't last, if privitisation does happen within the next 18 months are RM employee's really looked after by "mummy"?

Having a wee drink are we??

You have to remember that this isin't the official CWU website and that anything posted on here is by members in the H&S forum.

Plus, there's nothing to stop you from applying for CWU membership on your own, find the rep and ask for the forms and you'll be paying out your dues in no time, I know some of the reps are quite lazy but there's nothing to stop you from initiating things.

FFS does the rep have to crawl and beg you to join. Perhaps you should show some initiative and ask or read the notice board or you could even join online http://www.cwu.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; some people really can't wipe there own arse!
Maybe you could join this one http://www.unitetheunion.org/sectors/ad ... e-cma.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; as you have the skills in slagging your colleagues off

[markadam1962]

I do believe the union should have done more to publicise the plight of the Angard staff.
I think it let all of us down union members and prospective union members...i've already gone into that on other threads.
However i have to say personally i'm not really sure how much use someone who constantly points out the deficiencies in others is to the union movement.
Perhaps the CMA is more up your street Mark.

As I still struggle to get my head around Royal Mails use of TLA's (Three letter abbreviation) so I was at a loss to understand CMA! However thanks to Google my career choices are:-

1) Christian Motorcycle Association - great for park and loop and prayers
2)Canadian Medical Association - Moya's GP?

And please can we remember that we can all have a laugh on these forum's! Its not all gloom and doom right time for bed and medication.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

As I still struggle to get my head around Royal Mails use of TLA's (Three letter abbreviation) so I was at a loss to understand CMA! However thanks to Google my career choices are:-

1) Christian Motorcycle Association - great for park and loop and prayers
2)Canadian Medical Association - Moya's GP?

If you are struggling to work out the acronym CMA when a link has been provided that describes it in full, I can why you are more concerned about colleagues work rates rather than your own. It also indicates your ability of working on your own initiative fits in well with other skills you may be able to bring to RM. Have you considerd the graduate route into RM.

And please can we remember that we can all have a laugh on these forum's! Its not all gloom and doom right time for bed and medication.

Yes - Cant quite see the joke in a post from your earlier in this thread.

Run to mummy at every turn! Some of you workers are deluded.

Mind you I think I see people with the same sense of humour being thrown out of night clubs on my into work most nights.

[MinisterofCucumber]

That's the point,i'm paid to do a job,it's not a great job and it's not great pay but i do my bit and go home satisfied that we've both kept to our part of the bargain.

Most will agree that the pay is not great.

Pay is not the only thing that keeps someone happy enough to stay in the job. A lot of workers in RM enjoy their work because they are doing tasks they enjoy. Some duties should be higher grade but management are able to keep the pay low because, for the workers doing these tasks, boredom is worse than being underpaid.

Everyone has different capabilities and the more productive workers have been used to being rewarded with 'job and knock'. The customer gets their stuff earlier and the worker goes home earlier. There has been a deal that the worker is allowed to finish early in return for working over the rate and giving the customer an earlier service.

Asking workers to keep to the standard rate and to refuse to do higher grade tasks is too big an ask. A lot of workers have stayed with Royal Mail for years and accepted the low pay because work was enjoyable and the pension was alright. Not everyone is motivated solely by money. These workers pay their union subs and expect the CWU national officers to negotiate national agreements on standard work rates and what duties should be higher grade. It is unfair to blame members for doing things that make their time at work more enjoyable. You are asking too much of human nature if you think someone is going to give up going home an hour early every day for the sake that extra jobs might be created.

There should be national agreements on most things such as use of casuals, allocating overtime and allocating annual leave. The CWU has allowed management to exploit the selfish side of human nature by agreeing that these sorts of things can be decided locally.

[MinisterofCucumber]

It's amazing just how much easier it is to delude yourself than it is others.

If the CWU had made management protect pay as per MTSF I would not have been able to force them to pay out tens of thousands of pounds.

If the CWU had made management pay workers temporary promotiom instead of substitution rate I would not have been able to force them to pay out tens of thousands of pounds.

Who is deluding who?

[fishtank]

Minister stop carving up my posts and using them out of context.
That sentence related to people who were under the mistaken impression that their level of performance was better than it was.
It had nothing to do with MTSF or management.