MGV Prof Driver Grade in Delivery - (Delivery Sup & 2% PR)

[TrueBlueTerrier]

LTB 1095/11 - MGV Professional Driver Grade in Delivery - (Delivery Basic Pay Supplement)

No: 1095/11
Ref: 24209
Date: 23rd December 2011







TO: ALL BRANCHES WITH POSTAL MEMBERS







Dear Colleague



MGV Professional Driver Grade in Delivery - (Delivery Basic Pay Supplement)



The purpose of this LTB is to update Branches on the current situation with MGV Professional Driver Grade employees who work in delivery offices and are not in receipt of the delivery basic pay supplement.



Although, this matter remains unresolved, the Union continues to pursue payment for these employees and this is subject to active discussions with the company. However, as previously reported, finding a resolution is proving to be far from straightforward for a number of reasons.



In the circumstances, when providing these members with an update, we would ask that our representatives take time to explain the full background, including recent developments and all the issues reported below, that are making this a difficult issue to bring to a satisfactory conclusion.



Firstly, although the Union continues to argue that the Business Transformation Agreement unequivocally states that all employees working in delivery will receive the delivery basic pay supplement, the company counter this by stating that the agreement goes onto say that this is for OPG Grades.



The factual position is that at the time the agreement was made, neither party fully understood the full extent of the various hybrid duty patterns that had developed locally across the company. The truth is, neither of the relevant paragraphs were written specifically to either preclude, or include, the Professional Driver Grade delivery employees for payment.



Secondly, whilst the Union continues to strongly argue that the spirit of the agreement was that everybody working in delivery should receive the supplement, particularly given that a proportion of these hybrid duty holders previously performed door to door work, Royal Mail continue to argue the substantive grade issue. Their point being, that if they were to pay these members the full delivery basic pay supplement, they would effectively be creating a new grade. In turn, these individuals would be in receipt of a higher overall rate of basic pay, than the MGV Professional Drivers who drive a 100% of their duty time. Royal Mail says this would be unfair to those employees and inconsistent with both the skill set and spirit of why the Professional Driver Grade was created in the first place.



Thirdly, during our recent discussions, Royal Mail undertook to carryout an exercise to establish exactly how many Professional Driver Grade duties exist in delivery offices and how many of these carryout delivery work, including door to door. This exercise was implemented on the basis of scoping potential costings and solutions. Royal Mail has shared the results of this exercise with the Union and we have pointed out a number of anomalies which will require a further and more detailed validation.



Fourthly, whilst these discussions have continued, separately the company has set out their intention to proceed with a national review of the MGV Professional Driver Grade, with a view to maximising the driving duty content, utilising technology already agreed for LGV Network Drivers. The company did suggest that this issue should be subsumed in the wider review discussions. Although the Union advised Branches at Annual Conference that this development was looming, we did not accept Royal Mail’s position.



The up to date situation is that an extensive exchange of correspondence has taken place in the last couple of weeks and both parties have agreed to meet again early in the New Year.



Finally, whilst the Union continues to look for a satisfactory solution, it is important that the affected members are fully aware of the complications surrounding this matter. A further report will be issued in due course.



Any enquiries on the above LTB should be addressed to the DGS (P) Department.



Yours sincerely







Dave Ward
Deputy General Secretary (P)

[TrueBlueTerrier]

23 December 2011
LTB 1100/11 - MGV Professional Driver Grade in Delivery – 2% Pay Increase in Lieu of the Shorter Working Week

No: 1100/11
Ref: 24209
Date: 23rd December 2011







TO: ALL BRANCHES WITH POSTAL MEMBERS







Dear Colleague



MGV Professional Driver Grade in Delivery – 2% Pay Increase in Lieu of the Shorter Working Week



We have received a number of enquiries requesting information over payment conditions for the above mentioned.



The following clarifies the situation:-



· MGV Professional Drivers in delivery are all due to receive the 2% pay increase, rather than the one hour reduction in the working week.


· For MGV Professional Drivers in delivery, the 2% pay increase should be pay at the same time the delivery office walk sequencing/shorter working week revision is agreed. Royal Mail has confirmed that if this revision week has already been introduced, but Professional Drivers did not receive the 2% basic pay increase, this will be paid immediately and backdated accordingly.



Given that there has been a delay to some delivery revision activity, due to circumstances beyond the control of the Union and its membership, we are currently pursuing with Royal Mail a default end date for all Professional Drivers in delivery to receive the 2% pay increase.



Please convey the content of this LTB to the affected members and where payment and back pay are due, ensure this pursued as a local priority.



Any enquiries on the above LTB should be addressed to the DGS (P) Department.



Yours sincerely







Dave Ward
Deputy General Secretary (P)

[fishtank]

Given that there has been a delay to some delivery revision activity, due to circumstances beyond the control of the Union and its membership, we are currently pursuing with Royal Mail a default end date for all Professional Drivers in delivery to receive the 2% pay increase.

Surely that should mean a default end date for all OPG's in delivery to receive the SWW or equivalent pay rise for part-timers....or are Professional Drivers a special case?

[DGP1]

Given that there has been a delay to some delivery revision activity, due to circumstances beyond the control of the Union and its membership, we are currently pursuing with Royal Mail a default end date for all Professional Drivers in delivery to receive the 2% pay increase.

Surely that should mean a default end date for all OPG's in delivery to receive the SWW or equivalent pay rise for part-timers....or are Professional Drivers a special case?

We'll probably be told off for asking questions

[dvbuk55]

"The factual position is that at the time the agreement was made, neither party fully understood the full extent of the various hybrid duty patterns that had developed locally across the company. The truth is, neither of the relevant paragraphs were written specifically to either preclude, or include, the Professional Driver Grade delivery employees for payment.



Secondly, whilst the Union continues to strongly argue that the spirit of the agreement was that everybody working in delivery should receive the supplement, particularly given that a proportion of these hybrid duty holders previously performed door to door work, Royal Mail continue to argue the substantive grade issue. Their point being, that if they were to pay these members the full delivery basic pay supplement, they would effectively be creating a new grade. In turn, these individuals would be in receipt of a higher overall rate of basic pay, than the MGV Professional Drivers who drive a 100% of their duty time. Royal Mail says this would be unfair to those employees and inconsistent with both the skill set and spirit of why the Professional Driver Grade was created in the first place."

Now there's a couple of organisations with their finger on the pulse, together with Roger Poole and Brendan Barber it is apparent that nobody knew the implications of the modernisation and yet the CWU bullied members into acceptance. Here we are almost two years on and there are still grey areas under discussion, I mean these aren't new issues they are from the original agreement, which took 5 (yes FIVE) months to be chattered about and this is what we end up with.

[POSTMAN]

Given that there has been a delay to some delivery revision activity, due to circumstances beyond the control of the Union and its membership, we are currently pursuing with Royal Mail a default end date for all Professional Drivers in delivery to receive the 2% pay increase.

Surely that should mean a default end date for all OPG's in delivery to receive the SWW or equivalent pay rise for part-timers....or are Professional Drivers a special case?

Exactly,my revisions way off,can I have mine.

[keithposty]

i myself receive the professional drivers money and i am attached to a delivery office. i do not receive the delivery supplement.

how can royal mail end the professional drivers money and default date as this payment is no longer a non penionable extra,

it is now incorporated into my basic pay

[Cut Off King]

Just a thought, but....

Maybe we should scrap the 2010 agreement & start again

[dvbuk55]

Just a thought, but....

Maybe we should scrap the 2010 agreement & start again

Well maybe it would best be revisited, renegotiated and revalued but by all accounts the CWU are determined to make it work, regardless of the cost to the membership.

[judith]

"The factual position is that at the time the agreement was made, neither party fully understood the full extent of the various hybrid duty patterns that had developed locally across the company. The truth is, neither of the relevant paragraphs were written specifically to either preclude, or include, the Professional Driver Grade delivery employees for payment.



Secondly, whilst the Union continues to strongly argue that the spirit of the agreement was that everybody working in delivery should receive the supplement, particularly given that a proportion of these hybrid duty holders previously performed door to door work, Royal Mail continue to argue the substantive grade issue. Their point being, that if they were to pay these members the full delivery basic pay supplement, they would effectively be creating a new grade. In turn, these individuals would be in receipt of a higher overall rate of basic pay, than the MGV Professional Drivers who drive a 100% of their duty time. Royal Mail says this would be unfair to those employees and inconsistent with both the skill set and spirit of why the Professional Driver Grade was created in the first place."

Now there's a couple of organisations with their finger on the pulse, together with Roger Poole and Brendan Barber it is apparent that nobody knew the implications of the modernisation and yet the CWU bullied members into acceptance. Here we are almost two years on and there are still grey areas under discussion, I mean these aren't new issues they are from the original agreement, which took 5 (yes FIVE) months to be chattered about and this is what we end up with.

my understanding about the delivery suppliment was a replacement for the d2d payment and to be paid to any one attached to a delivery office,this was introduced to keep the same amount of money in the pot,so the formula used would be amount of money paid out divided by those going to get the payment,if that being the case there should be a clear understanding of who gets it and who does nt,if thats not the case then the payment is wrong but more importantly this was a ploy to swing the vote by promising more money to people who did not deliver d2ds,looks like we ve been sold down the pan again still merry xmas everyone

[dvbuk55]

my understanding about the delivery suppliment was a replacement for the d2d payment and to be paid to any one attached to a delivery office,this was introduced to keep the same amount of money in the pot,so the formula used would be amount of money paid out divided by those going to get the payment,if that being the case there should be a clear understanding of who gets it and who does nt,if thats not the case then the payment is wrong but more importantly this was a ploy to swing the vote by promising more money to people who did not deliver d2ds,looks like we ve been sold down the pan again still merry xmas everyone

Well it is apparently open to interpretation because there is a difference of opinion in what was written and what the union call "the spirit" of the agreement. In my opinion the agreement will always be judged on the words and not the impression of the spirit of the agreement.

[judith]

my understanding about the delivery suppliment was a replacement for the d2d payment and to be paid to any one attached to a delivery office,this was introduced to keep the same amount of money in the pot,so the formula used would be amount of money paid out divided by those going to get the payment,if that being the case there should be a clear understanding of who gets it and who does nt,if thats not the case then the payment is wrong but more importantly this was a ploy to swing the vote by promising more money to people who did not deliver d2ds,looks like we ve been sold down the pan again still merry xmas everyone

Well it is apparently open to interpretation because there is a difference of opinion in what was written and what the union call "the spirit" of the agreement. In my opinion the agreement will always be judged on the words and not the impression of the spirit of the agreement.

fair enough but that does nt say how they came to the set payment,iv worked in the passed as a union rep for 20 years in different industries iv'e never come across agreements that are so opened ended in all my life that this union puts forward, but worst still lets the membership its supposed to represent down so badly,i don't blame local reps but those at the top,we pay our money to represent our views and to me this is being totally ignored.

[arnold cheshire]

i myself receive the professional drivers money and i am attached to a delivery office. i do not receive the delivery supplement.

how can royal mail end the professional drivers money and default date as this payment is no longer a non penionable extra,

it is now incorporated into my basic pay

does anybody else have drivers allowance incorporated into their basic pay ??

[Martin Walsh]

it is a complex issue when the agreement was being made the CWU got in the agreement everyone attached to delivery office. So clearly the CWUs line is that everyone should relieve the permanent addition to basic pay. However when the pay rates were agreed over the 3 year period MGV drivers ( professional drivers ) were omitted as no one anticipated they were tagged to delivery office. This is due to when the negotiations took place on getting professional drivers the new pay rate that the extra £47 per week they recieve in basic pay for driving was on the basis that they would maximise driving time in line with the new laws and carry out the new tasks.

In an organisation like Royal Mail where you have 1500 different offices and over 70 different allowances and arrangements it was not expected that there would be professional drivers carrying out delivery work. The agreement on professional drivers really only covered Network drivers and Area distribution drivers tagged to mail centre who drove class 7.5 tonnes or over. To get this almost all the add on staff like Christmas bonus were included into basic pay.

The Union has argued that all of the delivery professional drivers get the supplement in the same way the union successfully got CSS operators the supplement. However Royal Mail have argued that in mail centres the professional drivers do not recieve the supplement for distribution.

In addition Royal Mail have announced that they now want to review the role of professional drivers and ensure that professional drivers duties are mainly employed on driving larger vehicles and for as long as the law allows them. This protentially has an impact on those professional drivers who are in delivery offices who are in the office for a sizeable time , some who no longer drive bigger vehicles and others who are now driving CDVs. The PSP pay system will highlight this even more.

So the CWU have been trying to get the supplement but Have also highlighted to Royal Mail the fact that professional drivers in some delivery offices are not carrying out duties in line with the professional drivers agreement which gave the improved basic pay.

[dvbuk55]

So are you saying that the CWU went into an agreement when it didn't know what the staff do. That despite the full time release personnel nobody realised that drivers were being used in DOs and advised the negotiators of that fact. Wonder what else slipped through the net because of the ignorance of the facts.