Being kept on

Post by **kirkleyrunner** » 22 Dec 2011, 17:06

My manager told me today that he has emailed Angard and asked if I can be kept on "indefinitely". He said Angard replied yes.
While I am happy to work for a bit longer, I don't fancy working indefinitely on minimum wage, doing exactly the same as permanent staff who are earning much more plus overtime.
I'm doing a long rural round all on foot with an HCT. Usually the round is done by van but I'm not allowed to drive a van because I'm Angard. I get no break and obviously no overtime. So I am working harder than most of the permanent staff.
I'd happily stay if offered an RM contract but I can't see that happening when they are currently getting me so cheaply.
This has put me in a bit of a difficult situation, the only way out would be to get a different job, which is easier said than done at the moment.

I don't want to seem ungrateful - I like the work and the team I am in. I just feel I'm being taken advantage of a bit here.

Post by **lnort986** » 22 Dec 2011, 17:35

kirkleyrunner wrote:My manager told me today that he has emailed Angard and asked if I can be kept on "indefinitely". He said Angard replied yes.
While I am happy to work for a bit longer, I don't fancy working indefinitely on minimum wage, doing exactly the same as permanent staff who are earning much more plus overtime.
I'm doing a long rural round all on foot with an HTC. Usually the round is done by van but I'm not allowed to drive a van because I'm Angard. I get no break and obviously no overtime. So I am working harder than most of the permanent staff.
I'd happily stay if offered an RM contract but I can't see that happening when they are currently getting me so cheaply.
This has put me in a bit of a difficult situation, the only way out would be to get a different job, which is easier said than done at the moment.

I don't want to seem ungrateful - I like the work and the team I am in. I just feel I'm being taken advantage of a bit here.

I understand how you feel. I've had no offer of permanant employment. But we are taken advantage of, with a decline in breaks and an easy, but tiring job at minimum wage. In my case, I was constantly given a large amount of work which would frequently leave me delivering two hours after my shift end (This ended recently after I lost my temper... :/). Even if I was offered, I won't be continuing for those reasons, plus I don't want a six day working week unless I love the job and see a career from it. At the end of the day, what do you feel you want? A job and a wage, or like me, does it piss you off so much you don't want to ever go back? It's all down to the individual mate. It's a shame RM won't take you on themselves.

Post by **kirkleyrunner** » 22 Dec 2011, 17:44

I guess they know that you have no choice but to continue. I want to work, but even if I didn't I couldn't leave as I would have made myself "voluntarily unemployed" and not entitled to benefit. That's why I said the only way out would be to find another job and move straight into it.
If RM actually want to keep good quality, reliable staff, they need to give an incentive to stay - ie a chance of a proper contract!
It's give and take, they can't expect people to just slave away on minimum wage forever.

Mikey456 · Post by **Mikey456** » 22 Dec 2011, 19:03

If you continue i think once you've been working their for a set period your entitled to all the same pay rates, union etc to normal staff.

Post by **hubbahubba** » 22 Dec 2011, 19:10

Chances are,IF you are kept on,it will be on a temp contract,that RM can choose to end whenever it suits them!
Its the way they would have the whole workforce,if they could.It stinks,but thats the business model they are after,i'm afraid...

bandit650 · Post by **bandit650** » 22 Dec 2011, 19:53

kirkleyrunner wrote:My manager told me today that he has emailed Angard and asked if I can be kept on "indefinitely". He said Angard replied yes.
While I am happy to work for a bit longer, I don't fancy working indefinitely on minimum wage, doing exactly the same as permanent staff who are earning much more plus overtime.
I'm doing a long rural round all on foot with an HCT. Usually the round is done by van but I'm not allowed to drive a van because I'm Angard. I get no break and obviously no overtime. So I am working harder than most of the permanent staff.
I'd happily stay if offered an RM contract but I can't see that happening when they are currently getting me so cheaply.
This has put me in a bit of a difficult situation, the only way out would be to get a different job, which is easier said than done at the moment.

I don't want to seem ungrateful - I like the work and the team I am in. I just feel I'm being taken advantage of a bit here.

Long Rural on a HCT

Well i hope you start and finish within a mile of the office or they should be giving you a bike at least,HCT work is designed for town work really not country running!If you don't get O/T then cut off,your break is a legal requirement so your manager should be making sure your taking it!most ANGARD staff are not paid M/R but you should still take it or they will keep taking advantage of you.

Post by **kirkleyrunner** » 22 Dec 2011, 20:14

bandit650 wrote: Long Rural on a HCT Well i hope you start and finish within a mile of the office or they should be giving you a bike at least,HCT work is designed for town work really not country running!If you don't get O/T then cut off,your break is a legal requirement so your manager should be making sure your taking it!most ANGARD staff are not paid M/R but you should still take it or they will keep taking advantage of you.

No it's miles out, I get dropped off with the HCT at start of round and picked up after. I'm told I can't use a bike because there's no-one available to bring additional bags out and no drop-offs. So I have to carry the whole round, and only an HCT will do that.

It was a struggle in the ice on Monday trying to push that thing up hills in my trainers. Must have looked a right pillock!

As I'm out in the middle of nowhere, there's not much point having a break, especially an unpaid one. I add half an hour to my timesheet, manager's okay with that.

Post by **POSTMAN** » 22 Dec 2011, 21:03

It's started,kept on indefinitely!

Post by **kirkleyrunner** » 22 Dec 2011, 21:11

If Angard are abiding by AWR then something tells me "indefinitely" means 11 weeks and 6 days.

Then they can get a new Angard temp in.

Post by **POSTMAN** » 22 Dec 2011, 21:14

I don't think so,the way i read it is that because you work for an 'outside' agency the AWR is defunk.

The company(Royal Mail) has agreed to meet the Union and has initially told us that whilst Angard is owned by the Royal Mail Group, recruitment of casual and agency staff will still be undertaken through the Reed Employment Agency. The RMG has stated that the rationale for this development is that it is a more tax efficient way of employing casual labour. They claim this is common practice in many companies.

However, the Union is aware that this may also be linked to the new European Agency Workers’ Directive which becomes law in October 2011. The advice we have received suggests that by taking this step Royal Mail may exempt themselves from the new law and the benefit this provides for agency workers.

Spell1 · Post by **Spell1** » 22 Dec 2011, 21:17

google "AWR" (agency workers regulation) .. think after 12 weeks your entitled to what ever permy staff get

HTH

Post by **POSTMAN** » 22 Dec 2011, 21:21

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 47&t=39469" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

See the 2nd post,Fish usually has it spot on...

From October when the AWR kicks in Royal Mail will have to pay agency staff the same rate of pay as permanent staff after 12 weeks.
If these agency staff become permanent employees directly employed by Angard Staffing they will effectively no longer be Agency Staff,not protected by the Agency Workers

Post by **kirkleyrunner** » 22 Dec 2011, 22:23

Well Angard is nowhere near capable of employing staff permanently at the moment. Who would want to be a permanent Angard employee?

Except in payroll of course. At least you'd stand a chance of knowing whether you're getting paid or not!

Britvic55 · Post by **Britvic55** » 24 Dec 2011, 15:20

Out comes the flexi-casual contract?

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 24 Dec 2011, 15:38

From the Angard flexible resource contract...

During an Engagement you shall remain employed by Angard and your terms and conditions of employment shall be governed by this statement.

and....

23.1 There are no collective agreements which directly affect the terms and conditions of your employment.

From the CWU guidance.

Agency Workers on Permanent Contracts
Agency workers who have a contract of employment with an agency and who are paid between assignments will not be entitled to equal pay, even after 12 weeks on an assignment. They will however have a right to equal treatment on holiday and working time entitlements after completing the 12 week qualifying period

Does he have a contract of employment with Angard?....Yes.
Is he paid between assignments?....who knows yet?

ROYALMAILCHAT

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