National talks update:Endorsed by the PEC

[dvbuk55]

Well some of us don't get paid to chatter, some of us get paid to work. Representing people in the union is why reps of whatever level are elected and shouldn't demand kudos for it. Why would a union representative need to put Royal Mails point of view? As for CWU HQs point of view should that NOT be the same as the memberships? If it isn't then why are the membership paying subs to CWU HQ to represent them? It would seem that some lose sight of their raison d'etre in the scheme of things and who pays them.

[fishtank]

The difference between me and a lot on here is I dont just moan and groan and blame everyone but myself.

The difference between you and a lot on here is your job description.
That's a fact not an insult.
If you want me to do what you do on a daily basis be prepared to do what i do on a daily basis.
Be prepared for the drop in take home pay as well.

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk with over 10 thousand posts I think you have joined the chattering class.

A CWU Rep and a union rep will always put the employer rationale and then argue against it`s rationale. I think most members will want to know why Royal Mail wants to do something and what they are thinking and then why the union believes it is wrong.

With regards to whether the memberships view is the same as Headquarters well thats differcult to gauge. For one the membership who voted supported the national agreement but most on here will say its rubbish and to be fair have said it from day one.

Other then membership ballots wether thats local , area wide or even national , then the policy of the union is normally recorded at annual conference or now policy forums.

The unions policy cannot be based on anonymous posters on here who no one knows whether what they saying is correct or not.

Now I have been in Royal Mail for over 26 years and I understand when people have felt pissed off with the union in that time , the removal of the IWM bonus was like a civil war as was the way forward with even members taking the indpendent balloting services to court and of course when we were out for 3 weeks non stop in 1988 over Dras.

However whilst I accept that a lot of revisons have failed , the majoirty have yet to go in and in the ones which have failed some are now working but other than 2 no office is angry enough to want to go on strike or even threaten to go on strike. Thats is surprising given that the CWU have had more local ballots over issues than most of the unions combined.

[fishtank]

The unions policy cannot be based on anonymous posters on here who no one knows whether what they saying is correct or not.

You're right it can't....that would be ridiculous.
It's much better to base it on poorly attended Branch meetings and the opinions of the same old "professional" officials who are about as far away from the real job as is humanly possible.
Carry on.

[gb93]

Is April 2012 pay rise of 3.5% as of BT 2010. Being discussed in the national talks.
I.E. Is it guaranteed to be at least that or are RM pleading poverty and saying they can't afford it.
But we can have some lovely treacle later in transmission payments.

Go on I'll ask again in hope of getting a answer.

[Martin Walsh]

GB , of course Royal Mail are moaning about the 3.5% pay increase and the uncertain situration concerning Europe but the CWUs postion is crystal clear that unless this is paid then I cannot see the CWU continue to support the deal going forward.

Now in terms of the reference to new payments ie incentives well all will be revealed very soon. However for the record I did not support colleague share from day one and I dont normally support bonus schemes or lump sums which are not guaranteed but based on either quality targets which are out of control or on Royal Mail`s national finances which are also out of control of a local office.

[dvbuk55]

Dvbuk with over 10 thousand posts I think you have joined the chattering class.

A CWU Rep and a union rep will always put the employer rationale and then argue against it`s rationale. I think most members will want to know why Royal Mail wants to do something and what they are thinking and then why the union believes it is wrong.

With regards to whether the memberships view is the same as Headquarters well thats differcult to gauge. For one the membership who voted supported the national agreement but most on here will say its rubbish and to be fair have said it from day one.

Other then membership ballots wether thats local , area wide or even national , then the policy of the union is normally recorded at annual conference or now policy forums.

The unions policy cannot be based on anonymous posters on here who no one knows whether what they saying is correct or not.

Now I have been in Royal Mail for over 26 years and I understand when people have felt pissed off with the union in that time , the removal of the IWM bonus was like a civil war as was the way forward with even members taking the indpendent balloting services to court and of course when we were out for 3 weeks non stop in 1988 over Dras.

However whilst I accept that a lot of revisons have failed , the majoirty have yet to go in and in the ones which have failed some are now working but other than 2 no office is angry enough to want to go on strike or even threaten to go on strike. Thats is surprising given that the CWU have had more local ballots over issues than most of the unions combined.

Ten thousand posts! Most of which probably don't involve wordy "rationales" trying to justify my existence, Royal Mails stance or why the CWU are really protecting jobs by agreeing with everything RM puts forward. Tell me do you think people are satisfied with the representation they are receiving, do you think that they believe all that is posted on here justifying the position the union takes? Tell me dingo considering your knowledge of the ins and outs of union affairs, what is the position now on the national figure of 75/25 split of FT/PT. Do you know, does HQ know, does anyone know.................more to the point, does anyone care?Perhaps one way for the union to tailor its policy is to ask the membership in general what their aspirations are, not rely on some jaded union hacks who merely pay lip service to the membership. Whatever happened to the biggest consultation ever, gone I would imagine down the same drain as the deal of the century. As for striking.................I think most people have had enough let downs from striking to last them a lifetime and think what is the point. If striking is always the answer to dissatisfaction to working conditions there wouldn't be a week go by that didn't have someone out.....IF it was that easy. I might at this juncture remind you that under BT2010, it did state that ALL avenues would have to be explored before going into disagreement.

[dvbuk55]

GB , of course Royal Mail are moaning about the 3.5% pay increase and the uncertain situration concerning Europe but the CWUs postion is crystal clear that unless this is paid then I cannot see the CWU continue to support the deal going forward.

Now in terms of the reference to new payments ie incentives well all will be revealed very soon. However for the record I did not support colleague share from day one and I dont normally support bonus schemes or lump sums which are not guaranteed but based on either quality targets which are out of control or on Royal Mail`s national finances which are also out of control of a local office.

Well here we go again RM are moaning about the 3.5% but the CWUs position is crystal clear because.........? YOU cannot see them supporting the deal going forward BUT what exactly IS the CWUs position............if it was crystal clear we would ALL know.

[fishtank]

I take it the tie in with inflation/re-opener clause that the CWU craftily negotiated has gone West as well then.

[gb93]

Well I got a answer of sorts, thanks dingo.
I will read between the lines & follow recent history.
And take it the pay rise is being discussed & movement is possible neah probable.

[wandle]

GB , of course Royal Mail are moaning about the 3.5% pay increase and the uncertain situration concerning Europe but the CWUs postion is crystal clear that unless this is paid then I cannot see the CWU continue to support the deal going forward.

The 3.5% pay increase is part of an agreement.
If RM breaks the agreement and refuses to pay it, a ballot for strike action should follow IMMEDIATELY.
What possible use is there in having an agreement that the employer can choose which bits they want to abide by ???!!!

[vigilante]

GB , of course Royal Mail are moaning about the 3.5% pay increase and the uncertain situration concerning Europe but the CWUs postion is crystal clear that unless this is paid then I cannot see the CWU continue to support the deal going forward.

The 3.5% pay increase is part of an agreement.
If RM breaks the agreement and refuses to pay it, a ballot for strike action should follow IMMEDIATELY.
What possible use is there in having an agreement that the employer can choose which bits they want to abide by ???!!!

Don't think I can remember agreement they have stuck to, unfortunately we always have to enter 'agreement's knowing RM
will reneage on any 'deals'. Pretty sad really.
The old boy's always used to say, 'you can't beat the system'; I really am starting to believe it!

We are David,they are Goliath--sadly we have mislaid our slingshot.

[labbloke]

FAO Dingo, although not a prolific poster unlike some, i on behalf of the majority of posters/viewers on this site really appreciate your input and interest in points raised here.

I cannot for the life of me why some feel its necessary to denigrate you at every opportunity.

FYI, i am a member of Wolverhampton and District Amal and am working at a MC/DO which has over a 1000 peeps working there, with a CWU membership of 95% and whilst yes we have our moans and groans are capable of looking after ourselves and our unions interest.

We have had our P/L revision, with every single postie on 36 hours or more and all payments paid, and all short term contacts made permanent. Only a strong local branch with decent reps has helped to achieve this.

Perhaps one or two of your denigrators should relax a tad , ease of the keyboard and get stuck in insteadof sniping from the sidelines.

[vigilante]

FAO Dingo, although not a prolific poster unlike some, i on behalf of the majority of posters/viewers on this site really appreciate your input and interest in points raised here.

I cannot for the life of me why some feel its necessary to denigrate you at every opportunity.

FYI, i am a member of Wolverhampton and District Amal and am working at a MC/DO which has over a 1000 peeps working there, with a CWU membership of 95% and whilst yes we have our moans and groans are capable of looking after ourselves and our unions interest.

We have had our P/L revision, with every single postie on 36 hours or more and all payments paid, and all short term contacts made permanent. Only a strong local branch with decent reps has helped to achieve this.

Perhaps one or two of your denigrators should relax a tad , ease of the keyboard and get stuck in insteadof sniping from the sidelines.

It's RM I blame in all this, always reneging on agreements,making it awkward, and failing to keep 'promises'.
Dingo puts up some good points and we thank him for it but some will challenge what he says as everybody challenges posts on this forum, some will be 'challenged' a bit more though.
Dingo puts his point across as well and challenges what they say!

[BELIAL]

GB , of course Royal Mail are moaning about the 3.5% pay increase and the uncertain situration concerning Europe but the CWUs postion is crystal clear that unless this is paid then I cannot see the CWU continue to support the deal going forward.

Now in terms of the reference to new payments ie incentives well all will be revealed very soon. However for the record I did not support colleague share from day one and I dont normally support bonus schemes or lump sums which are not guaranteed but based on either quality targets which are out of control or on Royal Mail`s national finances which are also out of control of a local office.

Well here we go again RM are moaning about the 3.5% but the CWUs position is crystal clear because.........? YOU cannot see them supporting the deal going forward BUT what exactly IS the CWUs position............if it was crystal clear we would ALL know.

3.5% pay rise will do nothing to maintain my standard of living . With inflation at 5.6% that is a whopping PAY CUT and even bigger pay cut if you earn less than £29K pa :ncfo