National talks update:Endorsed by the PEC

[labbloke]

Dingo, please remember dv and fish in my opinion play the devils advocate role and do at times ask some pertinent questions.

However there are over 10,000 members to this site who read and value the debate which ensues, so thanks for your input and keep on posting bro

[Martin Walsh]

fcuk the pec who do they think they are
we pay them
they should do what their employers want (thats us btw )
put all the disputes ,cons grievances the lot to the union us let us decide what we want what is right
or are they too far up their own backsides or rms

Wrong again Royal Mail pay the elected Postal Executive members , they are elected by the membership who bother to cast their vote in line with the employment laws and their role is to oversee conference polices and make decisions between conferences.

I suggust if you want to see change you attend your Branch`s Annual General Meeting and put a policy forward. However I doubt that is needed as some of us are already trying to get change push through.

I tell you now that no one on the Postal Executive is up Royal Mail`s arse but and maybe you and many others have not been involved in negotiations and very differcult ones at that , but its not as simple as saying you want something and then the other side says oh of course we give in. No it does not work like that and lets face it the challenge many are saying is if things are so bad out there why are they not more disputes.

[Martin Walsh]

Dingo, has the extension to the BT2010 plan ever been endorsed by the membership? Surely if there has been a change to an agreement that we were asked to endorse in the first place, then any extension or material change to that should also be put to the members.

Lincox the thing is the CWU have not agreed an extension of the Plan. Part of the reason why the Emergency Motion E3 was put to conference and why the talks are is because of the longer Royal Mail 5 year plan as the terms of MTSF was due to be reviewed in October next year.

Look I really dont think people seem to understand or maybe choose to ingnore the until the European Commission have decided what their decision is with regards to whether state aid is granted and Cameron`s decision today might not help then everyone is in libo.

Of course the CWU want to sort out deliveries , colleague share , pay , MTSF and pensions but the simple fact of the matter is no one knows whether and if so what terms state aid will be granted.

[fishtank]

How could the membership be convinced to trust another Royal Mail incentive scheme when they have been lied to and conned over the colleagueshare fiasco?

What would Royal Mail want in return this time for the money we have already earned?

Why is the union even contemplating this direction?

Have HQ no idea how absolutely screwed over the membership feel over this?

As a pre-requisite to talks this money should be handed over to the membership now.

Have we lost our ability to make our own demands?

This abject surrendering of this point of principle makes us look weak and will set the tone for the whole negotiation process.
It is embarrassing.

[Martin Walsh]

Lots of questions fish and Its not for me to answer but I think your soon find out what the union is demanding from the talks.

But you ask why the union is look at demanding that more money is given well if state aid is granted Royal Mail will save about 300 million per year. Why cannot we not have money paid to workers not in a phoney lump sum but in real money weekly. The Colleague share was a con by Leighton and Crozier and it was a taken away in a swindle.

Fish Of course CWU HQs know the feelings of members , Bob , Dave and others have been visiting offices on a weekly basis for a while , hence when Bob went into Leeds last week that he witnessed the flow process and world class mail`s in orperation. Equally there is area reports and members letters. The problem is thou Fish you sometimes live in a gold fish bowl on here listening to everyone comments but not everyone is moaning at the same things.

Some members are moaning they are not having a revison , some are moaning they are having one.

[fishtank]

I don't live in a goldfish bowl dingo,i'm well aware of the different issues on here but i'm more aware of the common thread...who they are blaming and how little appetite they have for more of the same.
As for the issue of state aid dingo,yes we are in limbo but what do you suggest we do?
Contemplate our navels for six months?
Pray to the God of European Deliverance?
The issues are still there to be addressed so we must address them.
Waiting until Europe gets it's finger out is not an option.

[Glenno]

Moya Greene came in after Crozier and worked out that the Business Transformation Plan was never going to work. She then revalued the company ,she lengthen the plan to 5 years and then the colleague share money was wothless as the company was worth nothing.

We keep hearing about this Extension to BT2010, but we are never given any details, Q: Have CWHQ accepted that this is now a 5 year deal or not????????

Ask a strait forward Question

[Martin Walsh]

Glenno the straight forward answer is no the union have not as the BTA deal is for only 3 years.

[BELIAL]

Dvbuk and Fish I have said it before your like a tag team ! Look Greene had just been employed by the Government and no doubt had been chosen and had discussions on steps with the Government.

Bugger me ,you sound more and more like an area manager with every post I think you may have overcooked your cred

[dvbuk55]

Well some of us on here share the same views and are not easily bamboozled. In all but name the union have conceded just about every issue put forward for the last five years by Royal Mail and I don't for one minute doubt the negotiations to come will indeed include a continuation of the agreement and a nod and a wink to both WCM and Improved Flow Through and yet another worthless incentive scheme that the union cannot enforce but will surely push as a selling point.

The absolute minimum the union should hold out for is the 3.5% pay increase so highlighted by the BT2010 agreement as a selling point for agreement especially as the pay rises previously have been very poor and below the rate of inflation.

As for the PEC, they should return to their normal duty for a minimum of 1 month in 6. That may truly open their eyes to the reality of what we face day in day out..............we don't chatter about anything in the workplace because we haven't bloody time these days.

[BELIAL]

Vote for this and you get £5,400 Only kidding you get the changes but f**k all cash.Lets have a ballot to see how many of you would strike to support our pension entitlements, oh s**t,overwhelming;ah sod off we've decided to give them away anyway

[stokes11eg]

More recently tensions have heightened over growing problems, particularly in delivery, with the company squeezing frontline employees to make additional savings under what has been termed “a business as usual approach”. In response the Union has made it clear publicly that we do not see this as part of our agreement and that these managerial initiatives will inevitably damage progress with the agreement.
So Managerial Initiatives' is the new word for bullying!
More ---what hogwash.

[heathrow86]

It seems to me having read the bulletin, that Royal Mail seem to have the upper hand here, dragging out talks. Also i bet the RM are quaking in there boots about the union's January 16th deadline. Is that the same threat that was made about the colleague share in April. Perhaps a strike at christmas is not a good idea but what about an overtime ban, working to rule etc, that would help slow things down abit.

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk and Fish I have said it before your like a tag team ! Look Greene had just been employed by the Government and no doubt had been chosen and had discussions on steps with the Government.

Bugger me ,you sound more and more like an area manager with every post I think you may have overcooked your cred

The difference between me and a lot on here is I dont just moan and groan and blame everyone but myself.

Instead I do something about things , including not agreeing revisions which are based on 100BSI , ensuring fixed term contract staff get a permanent and I am not scared of arguing with either management or the CWU and whats more where I come from we still fight against things and still get a yes vote in industrial action ballot.

Whats more you might say I sound like a manager but I think I help a lot of people on this site who email me questions and give advice. Just because I give both Royal Mail`s point of view , along with CWU HQs and then a membership point of view does not mean I dont take a membership side of view in talks rather than a CWU HQs view.

The problem with some on here , is that they are canteen cowboys love to criticise everything but provide no solutions and do not stop the things which they dont like happening in their own offices.

I am up for changing the delivery agreement , my record is known on this at both CWU HQs and out in the field and to management. However lets not kid ourselves that any change will not have longer Saturdays or the use of CDVs as unless you change the way people post and you stop machines being used to sequence the mail than we will continue to have later Saturdays then we used too. But a less science based revision , no 100BSI , a change to the model week , taking where possible tracked and packets back off CDVs , stopping the levels of absorption , ensuring that offices get the 1 in 4 and that revisions should be based on negotiations not on unrealistic BSI targets which end up failures.

Equally places where there are no savings to be made such as parts of Scotland should get their money. The madness is that there is an office I know who management recognise even if they ran all the tools including the duty builder nothing would come out but Royal Mail Headquarters are still saying the walks will have to change which means the revision gets pushed to the back of the list until as it has no value to Royal Mail. This must be stopped.

[gb93]

Is April 2012 pay rise of 3.5% as of BT 2010. Being discussed in the national talks.
I.E. Is it guaranteed to be at least that or are RM pleading poverty and saying they can't afford it.
But we can have some lovely treacle later in transmission payments.