Divisional/Area/Lead DSM meeting

[TrueBlueTerrier]

You could not make it up , the divisional reps at this meeting stop any further revisions being agreed until the 100 BSI issue has been bottomed out and some still moan that we are still talking and chattering.

But has this been communicated nationally

So tell me if you want something bought to a head why are you looking for others to do it for you ?

I am not sure if this is aimed at ordinary members, who at the moment STRUGGLE to do a good job in the time given, and understandably cant see the National Picture because of poor coms. Members need to be shown guidance and leadership if not then the CWU becomes less relevant at Office level, and IMHO too much is put onto Local Reps in a lot of branches who have to fight to get release, have to implement revisions with little knowledge of the intricacies and have to face ordinary members on a daily basis.

Or is it aimed at other regions and branches - if so perhaps you could word it better, but I agree with you.

I told you exactly what happen today and the CWU at the meeting did exactly what some of you on here have said we should do and that is get the detail on the 38 delirevry revisons which have been introduced and audit some of them and examine why some have worked and why others have failed.

Good - lets hope the same is happening in ALL branches and divisions.

Oh and we also told the senior managers in the Thames Valley region no to 100 BSI.

Again good but is that National Policy, we said no to 100BSI on our revision, but many offices have accepted it - and higher . Lets not blame the offices for accepting it, but find out why. The blame culture and glossing over problems may start affecting the Union as a whole, if senior members don't tackle it.

Judging by some of you we should have called a national strike , held the managers hostage until they admited that the whole delivery best pratcise revisions have worked.

missed NOT there but the policy of calling for a National Strike has worked before, and will again if the Union thinks it will benefit it, or the weight of calls from members becomes too much. (We are not there yet by a long way)

Very easy behind a key board to instruct others on what to do but its not so easy when you have to do it yourself. The saying that SUCCESS HAS MANY AUTHORS BUT FAILURE HAS NONE SPRINGS TO MIND.

Instruct - very curious choice of words. Dingo we are a forum, a forum debates matters thats whats happening. I hope you are not taking offence because people are putting forth opinions and suggesting alternatives in a forthright manner. Whether they transfer what they say on here to the real world is for their own conscience but complaining about it comes across as a bit high handed.

[dvbuk55]

I wouldn't advocate a strike BUT the chattering goes on whilst the revisions go on and each revision that goes in that does not conform to what the CWU THINKS is happening is yet another erosion of the union. There should be absolutely NO acceptance of WCM and Flow Through anywhere until such time as ALL bones of contention ARE bottomed out AND communicated NATIONALLY - like most people this is the place to discover what is going on and is that as it should be considering this is the Communications Union?

[fishtank]

While we wait for a national position on a number of points the revisions continue and at a faster pace.
Some areas will hold the line on certain points but give ground on others because the have different agendas.
At this rate by the time we have a national position on anything that position will be untenable and a pointless waste of time as it will already have been undermined by existing revisions.

If i was building a house for someone and they suddenly changed the plans all work would stop until a viable solution was agreed.If that meant tearing down the house and starting from scratch then so be it.
I would not continue to build half the house using the old plans and half using the new plans and just hope the whole thing didn't fall down.

We are in danger of ending up with a mishmash of different revisions using different parameters,rules and guidance which will leave us with no national position and obviously that will allow Royal Mail to cherry pick the parts it likes the look of and eventually apply it to every area.

[dvbuk55]

The problem with not having a national agenda is that it is very difficult to persuade people to support an agenda that has already passed them by because the guidelines are so wishy washy. 18 months on and the "fine details" are still being chattered about. Why are so many revisions failing and what are the succesful revisions doing that makes them work - we can all surmise BUT we want the evidence to support it. Why has it taken so long for these problems to be addressed - well if chattering IS addressing the problems without taking on trust that within the next ten revisions one will work. It's a bit like playing blind poker.

[Fluke]

I'm completely confused.

My office in the middle of revision planning, do we now stop until a National agreement has been reached on BSI?

Has anything supposed to have been communicated to anyone?

WTF is going on?

[dvbuk55]

I'm completely confused.

My office in the middle of revision planning, do we now stop until a National agreement has been reached on BSI?

Has anything supposed to have been communicated to anyone?

WTF is going on?

You'll be glad to know there are more meetings lined up Fluke Whilst RM have the glitterati ensconced in meetings like rabbits in the headlights, round the back more revisions are going ahead with unagreed procedures undermining the unions position. As the Japanese delegation was talking peace in the USA, their fleet was sailing blithely on to bomb Pearl Harbour...............I do believe there was a misplaced element of trust......sounds familiar

[vigilante]

I'm completely confused.

My office in the middle of revision planning, do we now stop until a National agreement has been reached on BSI?

Has anything supposed to have been communicated to anyone?

WTF is going on?

I have started our revision as a trial office for flow and also going through methods.
Ever since it was announced that we were to be a trial office for Flow process and going through 'methods' as well I have been disillusioned.
The branch have been fairly good in support but I do feel unit reps are as isolated as ever if not more, especially from above Division and even division seems 'further away'
The biggest gap is HQ to local reps.
We are the people who have to have answers for members and when we say we cant give you an answer because we don't know what is going on nationally, we are the ones who are left
shrugging our shoulders!
Do HQ really know how much pressure is on local rep's? No, I don't think so.
I'm not hiding behind a keyboard, just want to give my members the best representation.

[Fluke]

Our office has Flow in and we weren't even on the trial list! We had the shambolic Big Picture briefs, followed a week later by the fittings and dolly trolleys. A staged 1 disagreement went in but not a bloody word from CWU HQ about trials or involvement, we get very limited information from them, they mights as well not bloody exist.

[vigilante]

Our office has Flow in and we weren't even on the trial list! We had the shambolic Big Picture briefs, followed a week later by the fittings and dolly trolleys. A staged 1 disagreement went in but not a bloody word from CWU HQ about trials or involvement, we get very limited information from them, they mights as well not bloody exist.

There's quite a few of us of the same opinion at the moment mate.
'Pop a disagreement in', they say. waste of good paper at present because what is agreed/not agreed is indecisive by RM/CWU.
RM are pushing revisions through with 'Flow' knowing that in the end they will get their way and an agreement will follow on Flow/WCM, while we at local level have to always be seeking
information on these subjects for ourselves.
Decisive answers is all we ask heading into/during revisions-these should have been agreed before any revision was started-anywhere.

[Fluke]

When HQ want to sell you something they pull all the stops out, we see road shows, get letters through the door and LTB's right left and centre. When there's a confusion or problems we don't get a peep out of them.

I for one would like some clear indication of where we stand on WCM, Flow and 100 BSI.

[Cheetah]

I'm completely confused.

My office in the middle of revision planning, do we now stop until a National agreement has been reached on BSI?

Has anything supposed to have been communicated to anyone?

WTF is going on?

I have started our revision as a trial office for flow and also going through methods.
Ever since it was announced that we were to be a trial office for Flow process and going through 'methods' as well I have been disillusioned.
The branch have been fairly good in support but I do feel unit reps are as isolated as ever if not more, especially from above Division and even division seems 'further away'
The biggest gap is HQ to local reps.
We are the people who have to have answers for members and when we say we cant give you an answer because we don't know what is going on nationally, we are the ones who are left
shrugging our shoulders!
Do HQ really know how much pressure is on local rep's? No, I don't think so.
I'm not hiding behind a keyboard, just want to give my members the best representation.

........

I'm not a rep but as I have previously stated sympothise with your position and am gratefull to genuine reps such as yourself......
My opinion is, HQ are too iscolated from it's members and more importantly supporting and advising local reps..... These people (RM) agreed and founded this so called deal with our union, but please or offend the charecters who agreed the deal (CWU Cheifs) are sitting in their cushty seats and doing nothing, whilst RM abuse and flout the agreement.
I mean (as I said in a previous thread) I was very encouraged to see them publish a document for the reps guidance & reference, but they don't then ensure EVERY single unit rep has a copy and is assisted in complying with it. The only way most can get it is on here , so I don't hold out much hope for reps who ask for support on the thing....... Just words once again from HQ

[vigilante]

I'm completely confused.

My office in the middle of revision planning, do we now stop until a National agreement has been reached on BSI?

Has anything supposed to have been communicated to anyone?

WTF is going on?

I have started our revision as a trial office for flow and also going through methods.
Ever since it was announced that we were to be a trial office for Flow process and going through 'methods' as well I have been disillusioned.
The branch have been fairly good in support but I do feel unit reps are as isolated as ever if not more, especially from above Division and even division seems 'further away'
The biggest gap is HQ to local reps.
We are the people who have to have answers for members and when we say we cant give you an answer because we don't know what is going on nationally, we are the ones who are left
shrugging our shoulders!
Do HQ really know how much pressure is on local rep's? No, I don't think so.
I'm not hiding behind a keyboard, just want to give my members the best representation.

........

I'm not a rep but as I have previously stated sympothise with your position and am gratefull to genuine reps such as yourself......
My opinion is, HQ are too iscolated from it's members and more importantly supporting and advising local reps..... These people (RM) agreed and founded this so called deal with our union, but please or offend the charecters who agreed the deal (CWU Cheifs) are sitting in their cushty seats and doing nothing, whilst RM abuse and flout the agreement.
I mean (as I said in a previous thread) I was very encouraged to see them publish a document for the reps guidance & reference, but they don't then ensure EVERY single unit rep has a copy and is assisted in complying with it. The only way most can get it is on here , so I don't hold out much hope for reps who ask for support on the thing....... Just words once again from HQ

Thanks cheetah.
I appreciate the branch sending me the guidance and reference(even though i got it here first!), but to be honest, the details enclosed within I have entered disagreements on already,
and sorry to say is not of much use because, as Dingo says there has been meetings about all but I need definitive answers NOW.
It's hard enough for members to accept BIG change to their working lives without Reps who should have the answers, knowing where they stand with CWU HQ/RM
Let's face it what RM are doing is trying to squeeze the guts out of indoor to optimize outdoor but if there is no clarity on ITW parameters or Georoute, members will have rediculous
workloads. See failure list.

[Martin Walsh]

TBT you fail to understand that the divisonal reps have no authority to communicate nationally only in their respecitve divisons.

Now Bob Gibson on behalf of the National Postal Executvie and in line with conference divisons have communicated that the CWU have not agreed to 100BSI and that no office needs to agree a revision based on 100BSI , the problem is so many have , now who is to blame , well I do think it is a shared responsibility , yes CWU Headquarters should have communicated much earlier , divisons should have ensure Branch`s informed the local reps and supported them in disagreements.

Now the issue of 100BSI is far more complex a subject , an office may agree with the manager that an office on the first revisons will be based on 85BSI but the problem is most of the tools and assumptions do not get reduced back to 85 and in any case the geo route system is based on 100BSI. In addition we have offices which are well over 100BSI. Now we know why some of these offices are over 100BSI is because our members work upaid by coming in early and no taking their paid meal reliefs.

The other issue on 100BSI is on your second revison it must commit you to 100BSI or the revison will not be agreed by management especially in the centre and therefore the money will not be released and the delivery method equipment will not be released.

The CWU and Royal Mail are in a mexican stand off , on one hand the CWU do not have to agree 100BSI and on the other Royal Mail`s tools and payments are linked to it.

Its a mess , the reality of the situration is that a number of delivery method revisons have worked , for instance there are 38 in the Thames Valley alone and some have worked , some failed and are now working but not at hours which the orginal revison was based on and some are still not working.

I have said this on numerous occassions , Royal Mail`s delivery best praticse revision policy has failed and it has become to scienctific and most no longer understand the delivery revison tools and needs to be changed. We need a new delivery agreement but we will have to remember whatever the new agreement is that will not stop Royal Mail want increase productivity or cut jobs.

Now in terms of Flow , I agree that the world class policy has been mixed up , and in my opinion flow is very much part of this but and there is a but the flow is now in the 6 step process and you can delay it and ensure it is not rushed. Royal Mail want to introduce the flow revison in 10 weeks but the changes would normally take 10 months , my advice is take as long as you require , ensure you have the help of the area reps and use the disagreement procedure.

The talks are coming to a head , the CWU have said Royal Mail`s plan is not working and will not work. I think we will be at that point in time again very soon and then lets see if the members really want to force Royal Mail to change their direction. The Jury is out !!

[dvbuk55]

Flow through was supposedly being trialled in 60 DOs. The next thing you know, although our office was NOT on the list up pops a delegation of planners in goes the rep and sub rep who are presented with the floor plan for the new frames - which are to be installed before christmas, despite the fact that the planners agree that there is insufficient room to include the cupboards and storage required to fully implement the flow through program. This in light of the review of the trials of flow through in January.

RM are steamrollering through these changes whilst all the chattering is going on. There should be unequivocal instructions from CWU HQ to stop implementing changes and refuse to use the equipment installed. Exactly where are Area Reps, do they ever become involved in these discussions and if they do where is the guidance - do THEY know what stance HQ are taking despite the meetings.

[vigilante]

Dingo----quote
Now in terms of Flow , I agree that the world class policy has been mixed up , and in my opinion flow is very much part of this but and there is a but the flow is now in the 6 step process and you can delay it and ensure it is not rushed. Royal Mail want to introduce the flow revison in 10 weeks but the changes would normally take 10 months , my advice is take as long as you require , ensure you have the help of the area reps and use the disagreement procedure.

?? sorry but DIM ordered frames in within a month of the 10 week process and Romec fitted them! Disagreement? The frames are in!! Area/division?---area are fairly supportive but division?
I put a disagreement in about flow process,(not that the DIM gave a flying 'F') the next day I hear Bob G had agreed it under the 6 phase! This is why I say there is no reply to management!
At local level you are left to deal with determined DIM'S and planners who are on a 'tick list' protecting their own jobs.
The disagreement system means nothing until you know what the hell is happening at the top!
Like DV says, revisions pushed through while talks go on----then it's too late for most.
RM are once again pushing things through at a rate of knots backdoor, while HQ argue against it then sort of 'agree' it?