Are Toilet Breaks Included in Revision times?

[mailmonkey]

Thanks Geezer!

Will have great pleasure directing the DIM to the relevant document tomorrow mornin'

[woofwoof]

Ignore your planner and your DIM,of course they have to be built in.
Each P&L duty should have somewhere to go,if it adds on loads of time to the duty then tough.

any more info for getting time built into your revision for welfare

[keithposty]

I HAVE BEEN AT THE PLANNERS THROAT FOR THE LAST 6 WEEKS ON THE QUESTION ABOVE

ITS NOT THAT A WELFARE BREAK CAN BE IDENTIFIED WITHIN PEGASUS

ITS ALLOCATING A TIME MODULE WITHIN THE DELIVERY SPAN THAT ROYMAIL ARE OBJECTING TO

I.E

DELIVERY SPAN 4 HOURS THIRTY WITH NO TIME ELEMANT FOR WELFARE

[Geezer]

Delivery Representatives Reference & Guidance Document v2
http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 08#p440072" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



H&S Standards

Royal Mail Position
Welfare break ignored. Meal Relief’s not being taken or enforced by managers. Bullying continues and use of conduct code creating stress.

CWU Position
Abrogation of Working Time Directive. Unsafe use of pouches over the shoulder. Risk assessments not in place where equipment not being used.

National Agreement States

Page 18
Health and safety - working safely
Health & Safety and working safely in the delivery environment is of paramount importance to Royal Mail and CWU and remains the overriding factor in all that we do.
Royal Mail and CWU share a joint agenda and commitment to ensure that safety is at the forefront of everyone’s thoughts and intentions at all times.

• Identifying the causes of stress - and working jointly to address them
• Safe and Secure working environment (including risk assessment and the provision of information, training,instruction and supervision)
• Fatigue – Understanding, Identifying and tackling the causes of fatigue
• Appropriately scheduled meal breaks (consistent with relevant working time legislation)

CWU Response
Do The Job Safely needs re launching in unit and nationally. Register Disagreement if welfare is not included in span. Challenge bullying and use grievance procedure.

[Geezer]

Update on Delivery Issues 12th August 2011 – Advice for local CWU reps.
http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 62#p413701" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Welfare



The agreement states unequivocally that welfare forms part of the delivery span.

“The Delivery Span is defined as the time between the first and last letter inclusive of all related tasks such as replenishment, welfare etc.”



Royal Mail is reporting to CWU representatives that the inclusion of welfare on delivery has been resolved. This is not true.
A disagreement was raised in an area in the Sth East Division and it was agreed to take the disagreement away from the locality and deal with it at national level through the JWG’s dealing with measurement & performance. The intention was to build the welfare element into the outdoor part of delivery duties by including a relaxation/contingency allowance into Pegasus/Georoute thus removing any potential disagreements locally. However despite some assurances this proved not to be the case and it could not be moved on due to the intransigence of Royal mail managers. The welfare issue therefore remains unresolved.
We were previously led to believe that the outdoor element of all delivery duties was set at 100BSI which instigated our approach to deal with welfare through a relaxation/contingency allowance. Royal Mail then changed tack and stated that the outdoor element was based on actual observation so welfare was catered for. We disputed this and requested the dates and venues for when this was carried out – without our involvement – and all the study data associated with the observations. This has not been forthcoming. In our opinion they are attempting to mislead us.
In our opinion the statement contained in the BT 2010 agreement cannot be clearer and it is our intention to raise this nationally again and at the NDG to seek a resolution. In the interim any statement that this matter has been resolved is untrue.

[keithposty]

i now have a response from bob gibson on the issue of welfare not being provided in the delivery span

Gents,

Your response from HQ is below. As discussed RM will put toilet facilities into the duty, but will not allow time to use them. You should act accordingly. If a disagreement is registered it should be about staff not being given time to use facilities provided, which can then be escalated.

For more info I have also attached the specific legislation and highlighted the relevant Regulation and Approved Code Of Practice. This should help with the grounds for disagreement.



Regul a t i on 20 Sanitary conveniences

(1) Suitable and sufficient sanitary conveniences shall be provided at readily

accessible places.

193 Sufficient facilities should be provided to enable everyone at work to use

them without undue delay.

Regards

d



Time for a welfare break is not included in the 8.2 sec call time.
Royal Mail nationally continue to refuse to accept adding any extra time for welfare breaks during route construction of Geo-Route. They can identify in Geo-Route where they are, but refuse to add in or work study the time needed to take one.
The response from Pete Ashford who is RM's head of Delivery Design and is the senior manager who would sanction the inclusion of extra workload is that staff should take any welfare break as part of their meal relief whilst out on delivery.
This is clearly unacceptable and we continue to challenge RM's position on this.
The inclusion of welfare breaks are part of the BT agreement and RM continue to refuse to honour this part of it if it involves adding extra time into delivery routes.
From a local point of view if RM refuse to add any time in for welfare breaks during duty construction of Geo-Route then the unit should go to disagreement on this issue. Only if revisions are held up as a result of this issue will RM start to take this seriously.

[woofwoof]

i now have a response from bob gibson on the issue of welfare not being provided in the delivery span

Gents,

Your response from HQ is below. As discussed RM will put toilet facilities into the duty, but will not allow time to use them. You should act accordingly. If a disagreement is registered it should be about staff not being given time to use facilities provided, which can then be escalated.

For more info I have also attached the specific legislation and highlighted the relevant Regulation and Approved Code Of Practice. This should help with the grounds for disagreement.



Regul a t i on 20 Sanitary conveniences

(1) Suitable and sufficient sanitary conveniences shall be provided at readily

accessible places.

193 Sufficient facilities should be provided to enable everyone at work to use

them without undue delay.

Regards

d



Time for a welfare break is not included in the 8.2 sec call time.
Royal Mail nationally continue to refuse to accept adding any extra time for welfare breaks during route construction of Geo-Route. They can identify in Geo-Route where they are, but refuse to add in or work study the time needed to take one.
The response from Pete Ashford who is RM's head of Delivery Design and is the senior manager who would sanction the inclusion of extra workload is that staff should take any welfare break as part of their meal relief whilst out on delivery.
This is clearly unacceptable and we continue to challenge RM's position on this.
The inclusion of welfare breaks are part of the BT agreement and RM continue to refuse to honour this part of it if it involves adding extra time into delivery routes.
From a local point of view if RM refuse to add any time in for welfare breaks during duty construction of Geo-Route then the unit should go to disagreement on this issue. Only if revisions are held up as a result of this issue will RM start to take this seriously.

so how did you get on with it

[keithposty]

THAT RESPONSE I ONLY GOT TODAY

DISAGREEMENT GOING IN NEXT WEEK

[newspaper]

so not 1 office in the uk has got welfare included in there delivery span

[keithposty]

THAT IS WHAT IT SAYS

A WELFARE PROVISION MAY BE IN THE DELIVERY SPAN ,BUT not

the time ELEMANT TO TAKE A PEE

SO IF YOU HAVE TO drive 2 MILES THERE AND 2 MILES BACK TO A PUB FOR INSTANCE on a rural delivery, THEY WOULD STILL EXPECT YOU TO COMPLETE YOUR DELIVERY within the delivery span

[AdTheBad]

Dear KIETH,
Yours posts are very informative and passionate, but please would you turn off the caps-lock. Its always been considered to be SHOUTING on the internet and thereby rude, but it also makes posts quite difficult to skim through. Keep up the good work and I hope you are not offended.
Ad.

[woofwoof]

Dear KIETH,
Yours posts are very informative and passionate, but please would you turn off the caps-lock. Its always been considered to be SHOUTING on the internet and thereby rude, but it also makes posts quite difficult to skim through. Keep up the good work and I hope you are not offended.
Ad.

give it a rest that caps lock s**t is for kids

[redissue]

Or use a bottle in the van like one of our staff did the other day

[keithposty]

stage 1 disagreement went in this morning

[brothermagrew]

I presume that one can take it that we are talking about Regulation 20 of the Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992.