Moya sets out our strategy

[jockstrapp]

Next year there will be massive change for deliveries.

Gulp... redundancies???

Feckin hope so I'm ready to go anytime they want.

[DirtyHarry]

Darren , I do believe that more line managers should be cut.

But how you think Royal Mail can save money by scraping park and loop is beyond me. I accept they have got the science wrong in planning park and loop revisons but do you really think that Royal Mail are going to scrap all the money they invested in CDVs for park and loop. So what happens if they scrap park and loop do we allow everyone to go back to cars on delivery and chase time again ?

Now they already invested in automation flat sorting machines , ILSMs and IMPs and CSS machines.

Now your point about getting people out on the street early ie 5;30 simply is now impossible unless Royal Mail stop all automation and then say to posters over 150 miles away that you cannot have your mail the next day even if you post 1st Class. You see we no longer breakdown in a mail centre a complete outward breakdown meaning that work increases on the inward. This means that distant mail`s do not clear an inward mail centre till 05;40 in the morning and that then means it has to go through the CSS machines.

It would breach Royal Mail`s lience to do what you have asked and even if it could be done if all you had was to do prep from and delivery from 05;30 there would not be many full time jobs.

Defeatist rubbish.
It's a public service, not a business.
However much it costs to bring the service back to what it was 10-15 years ago, it has to be spent.
Taxpayer's money couldn't be better spent when compared to the estimated £50million a day that is wasted on our utterly useless membership of the EU, so pleading poverty will never wash with me.

[dvbuk55]

The snag is the CWU has bought in to the idea RM is a business enterprise and strictly speaking it isn't quite yet because it is wholly owned by the public, who don't seem to have had any say into what they want and expect from the service.

[fishtank]

The snag is the CWU has bought in to the idea RM is a business enterprise and strictly speaking it isn't quite yet because it is wholly owned by the public.

It never will be...not fully.
Delivery will always be loss making no matter what fanciful method is dreamt up by those that know little but talk big.It will always need to be subsidised by someone or something and the sooner these idiots in charge realise that the better.
Rather than trying to cut delivery to the bone with this sham revision process/savings plan in a pointless and ultimately futile attempt to make it pay they should be investing in it properly because it is the only part of the business the customer really cares about and without customers you,me,Royal Mail and the CWU are going to look silly with our uniforms and PDA's and f**k all to do.

[Martin Walsh]

Dirty Harry its not defeatist to admit that the no government is going to turn the clockback to the time when we everything was fine and dandy in Royal Mail. All be it when I joined in 1984 the senior bods then said the job was going down the pan and that it had change from all recognition.

I know we all look through rose tinted glasses back to the good old days but lets be honest there were lots of attacks back then , the removal of IWM bonus , the intorduction of SFMB and the agreement to accept part timers. The Dras Dispute 3 weeks we were all out for , the CADR dispute , the Employee agenda , the way forward ,the PBS scheme along with several other disputes along the way. Plus every year there were proposals for 5% cuts , the proposal for delivery remuneration linking it to the stratford scheme , proposals for clear frame , early starts ie the Newcastle dispute are just a few issues we all face when we were as you say a public sector service plus all during the 90s we had the public sector pay limits where our pay either did not go up or was capped.

Oh and who remembers when the 5 day option was came in along with the shorter working week in 1988 ,instead of most people moving to 5 day working , most decided to take the hour and half off of the saturday when you returned to the office to IPS. See back then the great issue was making time out of the job.

So I know its all popular to call for the return back to the public sector and I am happy to contiue to do that but ther world has turned and so has the Postal World and back then we had a monopoly and it was still a fight to mantain and improve things.

Give you an example in 2000 there was 167 industrial action ballots in postal branch`s , in 2001 there were 161 , in 2002 there 162 , in 2003 there were 164 , in 2004 there were 548 , in 2005 there were 149 and in 2009 there were over 450. In 2011 there were 10.

Now we could all say that people have lost faith in the union but all those other ballots were from workplaces whose members decided that they would fight collectivily against what Royal Mail were doing not necessary for the wider CWU but because they were not going to allow Royal Mail to do something to their office. Now if everything is so bad then why have we not got more. Is it that some are happy that the revison is not working as overtime is on tap and certainly in some of the units I have seen it is that or is it that they were more intent on receiving the lump sum ?

[vigilante]

Darren , I do believe that more line managers should be cut.

But how you think Royal Mail can save money by scraping park and loop is beyond me. I accept they have got the science wrong in planning park and loop revisons but do you really think that Royal Mail are going to scrap all the money they invested in CDVs for park and loop. So what happens if they scrap park and loop do we allow everyone to go back to cars on delivery and chase time again ?

Now they already invested in automation flat sorting machines , ILSMs and IMPs and CSS machines.

Now your point about getting people out on the street early ie 5;30 simply is now impossible unless Royal Mail stop all automation and then say to posters over 150 miles away that you cannot have your mail the next day even if you post 1st Class. You see we no longer breakdown in a mail centre a complete outward breakdown meaning that work increases on the inward. This means that distant mail`s do not clear an inward mail centre till 05;40 in the morning and that then means it has to go through the CSS machines.

It would breach Royal Mail`s lience to do what you have asked and even if it could be done if all you had was to do prep from and delivery from 05;30 there would not be many full time jobs.

Just ready for a company to take over the M/C'S across the country! Nice orange fleece anybody?

[krussel]

Dingo thats a good post

[dvbuk55]

Give you an example in 2000 there was 167 industrial action ballots in postal branch`s , in 2001 there were 161 , in 2002 there 162 , in 2003 there were 164 , in 2004 there were 548 , in 2005 there were 149 and in 2009 there were over 450. In 2011 there were 10.

Now we could all say that people have lost faith in the union all those other ballots were from workplaces whose members decided that they would fight collectivily against what Royal Mail were doing not necessary for the wider CWU but because they were not going to allow Royal Mail to do something to their office. Now if everything is so bad then why have we not got more. Is it that some are happy that the revison is not working as overtime is on tap and certainly in some of the units I have seen it is that or is it that they were more intent on receiving the lump sum ?

I wonder if there isn't some correlation there! No matter what the dispute, the membership always end up worse off, so maybe they have decided not to bother with ballots, particularly after BT 2010.

[hubbahubba]

Dirty Harry its not defeatist to admit that the no government is going to turn the clockback to the time when we everything was fine and dandy in Royal Mail. All be it when I joined in 1984 the senior bods then said the job was going down the pan and that it had change from all recognition.

I know we all look through rose tinted glasses back to the good old days but lets be honest there were lots of attacks back then , the removal of IWM bonus , the intorduction of SFMB and the agreement to accept part timers. The Dras Dispute 3 weeks we were all out for , the CADR dispute , the Employee agenda , the way forward ,the PBS scheme along with several other disputes along the way. Plus every year there were proposals for 5% cuts , the proposal for delivery remuneration linking it to the stratford scheme , proposals for clear frame , early starts ie the Newcastle dispute are just a few issues we all face when we were as you say a public sector service plus all during the 90s we had the public sector pay limits where our pay either did not go up or was capped.

Oh and who remembers when the 5 day option was came in along with the shorter working week in 1988 ,instead of most people moving to 5 day working , most decided to take the hour and half off of the saturday when you returned to the office to IPS. See back then the great issue was making time out of the job.

So I know its all popular to call for the return back to the public sector and I am happy to contiue to do that but ther world has turned and so has the Postal World and back then we had a monopoly and it was still a fight to mantain and improve things.

Give you an example in 2000 there was 167 industrial action ballots in postal branch`s , in 2001 there were 161 , in 2002 there 162 , in 2003 there were 164 , in 2004 there were 548 , in 2005 there were 149 and in 2009 there were over 450. In 2011 there were 10.

Now we could all say that people have lost faith in the union but all those other ballots were from workplaces whose members decided that they would fight collectivily against what Royal Mail were doing not necessary for the wider CWU but because they were not going to allow Royal Mail to do something to their office. Now if everything is so bad then why have we not got more. Is it that some are happy that the revison is not working as overtime is on tap and certainly in some of the units I have seen it is that or is it that they were more intent on receiving the lump sum ?

Maybe because its hard to tell the difference between the CWU and RM these days?Maybe because there are a lot less union members and FT staff these days?Maybe because it's a very uncertain time employment-wise to be "rocking the boat"?

I would agree that there are a lot of the "im alright,f*** the rest" brigade these days,but then that begs the question,if the union knows a lot of short-sighted people fall for the carrot and stick approach,why do all the recent changes we are balloted on come with cash incentives endosed by the union?

[MinisterofCucumber]

. Is it that some are happy that the revison is not working as overtime is on tap and certainly in some of the units I have seen it is that or is it that they were more intent on receiving the lump sum ?

Overtime and lump sum payments (bribes).

This is how the membership have been bought, Dingo argues.

But who has helped management to sell these things to the members?

Overtime There is mass youth unemployment. Full staffing should be a policy of all unions. The CWU should not be tolerating the levels of overtime in RMG.

Lump sum payments After the colleague shares fiasco, the CWU should not be touching any bonus scheme with a bargepole.

Why do CWU negotiators and the PEC negotiate and recommend pay deals that include lump sum payments?

It's not like HQ have put across the message that it is better to have a raise in basic than a lump sum or it is unfair to claim so much overtime while there are so many unemployed.

What's the message?

Is it selfishness is ok and the Union's priority is to maintain membership numbers at any cost?

[Cut Off King]

If the CWU has accepted the RM view of the world - declining volumes , P&L no limit for D2Ds etc.

The how about a change of tack !

Everybody wants to finish early, But RM wants all hours worked

How about a reduction in the working week to 35 hours gross. And you work at max efficiancy during those 35 hours, no making time?

Just a thought.

[fishtank]

And you work at max efficiancy during those 35 hours, .

Who decides what max efficiency is?
...and is it variable with age,sex,physical condition?
Sounds like more of the same rubbish they're throwing at us now Cut Off King.

[Cut Off King]

And you work at max efficiancy during those 35 hours, .

Who decides what max efficiency is?
...and is it variable with age,sex,physical condition?
Sounds like more of the same rubbish they're throwing at us now Cut Off King.

Well , I agree with ACAS, 75% bsi sounds about right ----- 100% is just a planners wet dream.

[fishtank]

Well , I agree with ACAS, 75% bsi sounds about right 100% is just a planners wet dream.

Wet dream or not it is the target.
75% bsi does sound about right but that's only your start point.
Forget what Bob said about not agreeing 100BSI.
When you agree continuous improvement processes like WCM,Upper Decile and the Indoor Flow Process by definition you have to improve and it has to be continuous.
Until that is...you drop down dead.

[Cut Off King]

Of course, if you drop down dead during RM's time , they will dock your last pay packet by the remaining hours you should have worked + 15mins penalty