CWU officials pay structure

[Martin Walsh]

First class , Branch Secretaries do not get full time release paid by Royal Mail. In fact when the IR framework orginally was introduced in 1992 , a branch secretary got 5 hours paid release for every 1000 members and thereafter an 1 hour for every 200 members after that . In 1994 there was an IR review and Royal Mail removed that criteria nationally but each divison had to agree the hours Branch secretaries recieved against the criteria contained in the IR framework which was deemed paid release.

Up to 1994 Branch secretaries had to take unpaid leave to carry out such things as Legal and Medical work , reprsenting members at DSS tribunals or industrial tribunals including preparing the case , organising elections , organising industrail action ballots or campainging for one. All of these issues meant Branch Secretaries had to take Special leave C unpaid . Indivduals had their wages deducted , the CWU Branch would top their wages up but there were national insurance and tax issues which were not complied with , plus indivduals pensions were effected during unpaid leave.

In 1994 the IR review agreed Central Billing arrangements which meant that instead of a Branch secretary or other CWU officials taking Special leave C they now take Union special leave which means that an indivdual continues to be paid by Royal Mail including pensions , national insurance and tax and Royal Mail reclaims the cost of covering that indivduals duty be that on reserve , SA or any other method. CWU Headquarters than pays Royal Mail for this and then claims that cost of the Branch rebate.

Now if a Branch Secretary does not have a duty , or someone is not covering a duty because its being lasped then there should be no charge. In addition there are a couple of Branch Secretaries who no longer work for Royal Mail.

In terms of Area Reps they are granted a level of paid release for carrying out IR issues some of which are listed in the IR framework. The law also now allows for a level of release. Now you question whether that puts them in managements pockets , someone has already said that unit reps are also paid by Royal Mail as are the members and most posters on here , certainly you would not say they are in managements pockets. But every union including the RMT have paid release.

No other union has taken more strike action then the CWU over the last 5 , 10 , 15 or 20 years that is a fact.

[Cut Off King]

Dingo wrote -

No other union has taken more strike action then the CWU over the last 5 , 10 , 15 or 20 years that is a fact.

Do you think that we have gone forward in that time, or just managed the decline ?

[keithposty]

what is needed is all the brances to put in a letter of protest to the nec on the direction the union is taking and elect new members to the nec

it might wake them up a bit

at the end of the day

we are the union, not the nec

[Martin Walsh]

Dingo wrote -

No other union has taken more strike action then the CWU over the last 5 , 10 , 15 or 20 years that is a fact.

Do you think that we have gone forward in that time, or just managed the decline ?

Back in 1994 the national average wage for a postman was 10 thousand pound on a 6 day week with 5 weeks on holiday if you had done the years. There was no pay protection , no shift allowance paid 52 weeks per year , there was only NDA paid when you worked between 1900 and before 0600 and only went you were at work , there was no payment for door to door or as it was known household , some offices did it on overtime , some reserves got put on and some offices did not do it at all , there was saturday premium so some people use to come back from leave on a saturday so they did not lose that extra £2.00 per hour. In addition we had unconsidated supplements to basic pay and not all our pay was pensionable.

We had no pay protection , we had a 41.5 hour week , the VR terms were not as good , we had claw back at Christmas , a lot of the country was on £42 at Christmas rather than the £100 , no excess fares , no excess travelling , we had a high overtime culture due to the low pay.

So yes I do things have improved. However lets be clear the business has change from one where we had a monopoly in which 50% of the most profitable mail streams are now done by TNT ect through DSA and Royal Mail are left with the most costly part of the operation the final mile. 60% of Royal Mail`s totals costs are linked to the final mile delivery so revenue which is lost in collecting and processing reduced the business ability to prospers. On top of this Royal Mail are saddled with the biggest pension deficit in western Europe.

So whilst it easy for people to say we are not happy with the BT agreement ect the reality is that the union did not have a veto and it did not matter if we went out for months and some of us went out for 20 days some of that agreement was never going to change. What makes me laugh is when I hear people say we had them on the ropes after 2 days and christmas was our strong time. The National action was weaker than in 2007 there were large pockets who did not come out.

But as someone who has been out at christmas I know that is the hardest time to convince the members to go out on strike not the easist. I come from a strong office and I know the only time I had differculty getting members to take strike action was christmas due to the fact most have other priorities and pressures.

[fishtank]

I think who pays reps and officials is more or less irrelevant.
What is more relevant is whether they are fulfilling their role?,who they are accountable to?,is that accountability open and honest?...are the democratic principles that elected them sound?...are there too many?,too few?,too out of touch?,too inexperienced?
These are questions that worry me more than where their wages come from.

[POSTMAN]

but i'm curious as to what MOC is saying,and why he's saying it.

MOC,play the game mate,I near enough knew i was right about the elections,needed it double confirmed.
That's naughty mate,if that does happen at your branch then the proverbial flag it to HQ needs to be done.

[fishtank]

The problem is a lot of area reps also hold branch positions....it muddies the waters.
Personally...i don't agree with it.
I would rather see my Area Rep representing than playing at Branch Treasurer/Financial Secretary.

[johnnyp]

and branch officials do not get an easy life as sugested

they have to validate there posistion each week by spread sheet to the dsm

having paid release is a privilage and not a right

branch officials work bloody hard for there members

well they do in mine

Agree 100%
My comment was meant to be tongue in cheek
They also work hard in our branch and have imho looked after the membership very well.

[first_class_stamp]

Thank you all very much for your comments, especially dingo for your lengthy and comprehensive reply. I simply had no idea how it all worked, It was during a pretty heated e-mail exchange with my Branch Secretary that I told him I paid his wages, when he promptly informed me that I don't, Royal Mail do. So let me get this straight are you saying that my Branch Secretary who is also my area processing rep gets about 19k a year. Is that all he gets? Nothing else just the pay of a postman on a 40 hour contract without overtime?

[first_class_stamp]

And if we voted him out he would have to go back on delivery, would love him to go back on delivery, just for a month, then he could go back to branch secretary and whatever else he wants to do. Would be a valuable reality check for him.

[MinisterofCucumber]

I was under the impression that if I wanted to go for ADR when elections come up then I can and the branch can't do feck all about it.
Not that I would,but i'm curious as to what MOC is saying,and why he's saying it.

This was the experience that I posted on the 9th March 2010:

"Our branch secretary, an extremely clever strategist, is very loyal to our rep. For a local rep to be effective, he needs the support of his branch and area rep. I don't have that support and so I attempted to get nominated as an area rep under the new POL IR framework. I wrote to my branch secretary about this several times but did not get a reply. Yesterday, I spotted a notice on the union board saying the committee meeting to decide on the full time union positions was to be held last night at 7pm in a pub. I finished work at 8pm but when I got to the meeting they had already chosen their candidate. A very charming Labour councillor was chairing the meeting although he is not listed as our branch chairman.

Their argument against nominating me seemed to be that I hadn't 'paid my dues' and that I was jumping the queue. My argument was that I had recovered money where a TCR had failed and I really enjoyed it and wanted to do it full time.

They were a nice bunch of venerable gentleman but I felt like I was in a meeting of the Pangbourne cricket club rather than a union branch of the CWU in East London. They were generous,they bought me a couple of pints and offered me a place on their committee. I'm just afraid that if I take their advice and 'wait for my turn', then the war will be lost before I can do anything about it."

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 42&t=24793" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Since then, I won an election and served my full year's term as Unit rep. I stepped down for a variety of reasons but I am still active. My supporters want me to stand as Area Rep at the next elections because they think I can get them 'Swindon Pay'.

What can my Branch and the POL IR reps do to stop me?

[Martin Walsh]

Thank you all very much for your comments, especially dingo for your lengthy and comprehensive reply. I simply had no idea how it all worked, It was during a pretty heated e-mail exchange with my Branch Secretary that I told him I paid his wages, when he promptly informed me that I don't, Royal Mail do. So let me get this straight are you saying that my Branch Secretary who is also my area processing rep gets about 19k a year. Is that all he gets? Nothing else just the pay of a postman on a 40 hour contract without overtime?

Yes I can confirm the vast majoirity of Branch Seceraties and area reps do not recieve any additional money from the union. The only times when reps should recieve money in line with the union rules ie if they use public transport to move between the various offices they reprsent or paid 30 pence per mile when travelling to and from the offices they reprsent. In addition when they go away to conferences etc they recieve a subsitutuion rate.

[dvbuk55]

Thank you all very much for your comments, especially dingo for your lengthy and comprehensive reply. I simply had no idea how it all worked, It was during a pretty heated e-mail exchange with my Branch Secretary that I told him I paid his wages, when he promptly informed me that I don't, Royal Mail do. So let me get this straight are you saying that my Branch Secretary who is also my area processing rep gets about 19k a year. Is that all he gets? Nothing else just the pay of a postman on a 40 hour contract without overtime?

Yes I can confirm the vast majoirity of Branch Seceraties and area reps do not recieve any additional money from the union. The only times when reps should recieve money in line with the union rules ie if they use public transport to move between the various offices they reprsent or paid 30 pence per mile when travelling to and from the offices they reprsent. In addition when they go away to conferences etc they recieve a subsitutuion rate.

What does a Div Rep get?

[Martin Walsh]

A Divisional Rep gets paid by Royal Mail as well Dvbuk. They are on a variation of contract and have no set hours and have to be on call if any problems. They cannot do overtime , do not get offices bonus , no shift allowances , no other allowances and they are paid a higher basic rate for this which was agreed in 1994.

[dvbuk55]

A Divisional Rep gets paid by Royal Mail as well Dvbuk. They are on a variation of contract and have no set hours and have to be on call if any problems. They cannot do overtime , do not get offices bonus , no shift allowances , no other allowances and they are paid a higher basic rate for this which was agreed in 1994.

The same as a manager then in brief, if I recall correctly. You seem to hark back to 1994 as a basis for good agreements dingo, well I would just say that was 17 years ago, surely there must have been some improvements to agreements since 1994 - it's beginning to sound a little like the Road to Wigan Pier. Perhaps the negotiators then had more............what's the word............. bottle..........well that sort of ball park.