OFFICES WITH A WORKING REVISION

[dvbuk55]

London Divisional Committee

These are strong words....disaster,unworkable,unrealistic...could have come straight from the knackered revisions thread.
Why was it withdrawn dingo?
Change of heart?
Why,when the members on here tell you these revisions are a disaster,unworkable and unrealistic...do you get so defensive?
As for me having an agenda,do me a favour.
I'm not the mover and shaker dingo,you are.

Whoa it looks like there may well be a different agenda being applied to some areas.

[boogyman]

what time do the posties get out on the streets if you say thats why mail delivered by 2pm. something is a miss here!!! if trolleys are being used then i beg to differ.

Posties are out between 9 and 10 am mate

LABBLOKE: your out between 9-10am no wonder our office is failing big time, we get out 10.30-11am cut offs, and o.t must be going through the roof. If royal mail is losing money then i'd love to know where this money is coming from.

[Martin Walsh]

Fish, you see I do believe that Royal Mail's delivery strategy has failed , I have said it to both Officers of the union and Royal Mail Directors. I think the science does not work unless there is manual intervention and negotiation before the revison.

I think Geo Route is flawed , I think 100 BSI is unachievable and I think upper decile was some dreamed up by Royal Mail in the negotiations as a new measurement as ACAS was in the room and they could not justify 100 BSI. I think the model is flawed. I am up for a re-negotition of the delivery part of the agreement.

However to force this we have to identify where the revisons do not work and what should be done to correct them. In the area I come from I have listed the problems and the other offices which are now working had initial problems as do most revisons even when we did table tops. However the way I believe you force change and stop bullying is to make Royal Mail listen. So just say if all those 60 odd revisons really are not working what is being done to change this and if bullying is taking place what are we doing to stop it.

For instance Kilburn in NW6 the revision is not working , it has been in about 6 weeks , they took out 4 walks , 2 firms drivers , a rest day cover and a reserve , they have got park and loop. It is not working and management are crisis managing the situration rather than trying to resolve the problems. Typcal of Royal Mail they are now blaming staff and bullying Indivduals. Well we are not having it Kilburn today have requested a strike ballot and we will ensure that we do everything to assist that office.

So Fishtank the reason why the London Divisional Committee withdrew the above was that 2 emergency motions were carried , one on support London in the mail centre ballot and the other was the national motion E3 which call for a review of BTA.

The other problem London faced of course is that at the time Conference was held we had no delivery method revisons , no delivery best pratice and no sequencing revisons in London.

[Godric]

not one single revision put in Ayrshire is working that is a fact, Ayr has their revision inJanuary and Prestwick (the office i work in) has our revision sometime in the spring, our neighbouring office Troon has had their revision in now for a year and it is still a disaster, postmen deliverying to 5pm and the manager also doing deliveries on a regular basis, our office has been told we could be getting our last feed of mail after 10 am .... how can that be classed as modernisation

[BELIAL]

Union adopts "give em enough rope " stratergy, can't fail ,pint pot an all that , posties pick up the flack until logic prevails

[fishtank]

However to force this we have to identify where the revisons do not work and what should be done to correct them.

You do seem to have trouble sticking to a position dingo.
Teething troubles,scare stories,the agreement is sound,the tools are sound,you all just moan on here.
...and then it's flip/flop geo-route is flawed,100bsi is bollocks,upper decile nonsense.
Do you want to identify failing revisions?....ask the divisional reps to ask the area reps to ask the local reps and members....nothing to do with this site....or pointless Branch get-togethers/piss ups.
What's working and what's not in your unit 200 words max.
How long would that have taken...a couple of weeks...a month at the most.
We've been doing sod all about this since April.

What should be done to correct them?
Bit of a problem closing the stable door after dobbin has legged it but if the implementation of the agreement had been properly monitored from the start with Area Reps and Divisional Reps in every region doing their jobs the door wouldn't have been left open to start with because the deficiencies in this agreement would have been apparent to HQ from the first revision.
My suggestion is blame the members or what's known in HQ as the default position.

[labbloke]

not one single revision put in Ayrshire is working that is a fact, Ayr has their revision inJanuary and Prestwick (the office i work in) has our revision sometime in the spring, our neighbouring office Troon has had their revision in now for a year and it is still a disaster, postmen deliverying to 5pm and the manager also doing deliveries on a regular basis, our office has been told we could be getting our last feed of mail after 10 am .... how can that be classed as modernisation

Have to agree with Dingo, didnt see any posts from the usual suspects saying , come on prove it prove it, after all i presume Ayrshire is a pretty big place, certainly bigger than Wolverhampton, and of course they are failing , so are believed , double standards methinks.

If people bother to read my posts, then they will have picked up the points, that there are people who despise the changes, but have managed through negotiation, to get the best out of it they could.

And Yes I do work at ROYAL MAIL, SUN ST, WOLVERHAMPTON, DO an MC together,

Oh hang on that means my posts cant be trusted, LOL, what twisted minds some of the usual suspects have.

rant over.

[fishtank]

Have to agree with Dingo, didnt see any posts from the usual suspects saying , come on prove it prove it, after all i presume Ayrshire is a pretty big place, certainly bigger than Wolverhampton, and of course they are failing , so are believed , double standards methinks.

I haven't questioned your input labbloke.
I applied the same standards i have for the failing revisions.
I believe it until someone from the actual unit comes on and says otherwise.
Of all the failing revisions i haven't seen one instance where a member has came on and said "wait a minute...we aren't failing".
I also haven't seen anyone come on and say labbloke is talking shite.
Until they do i'm happy to take what you say as 100% but i still would like to hear from the members involved.

[dvbuk55]

I do believe that Royal Mail's delivery strategy has failed , I think Geo Route is flawed , I think 100 BSI is unachievable and I think upper decile was some dreamed up by Royal Mail in the negotiations as a new measurement as ACAS was in the room and they could not justify 100 BSI. I think the model is flawed. I am up for a re-negotition of the delivery part of the agreement.

Let's see now, isn't the delivery part of the agreement pretty much ALL of the meat of agreement - isn't it delivery officers who said that it was crap BEFORE it was agreed, isn't it delivery offices who are producing the so called modernisation and isn't it those who proclaimed the deal of the century now saying how flawed it all is. The tragedy is those self same people are the ones who are deciding the strategy for the union.

[Cut Off King]

Nobody in my office is happy with the changes that bt2000 agreed.

They trust the local rep, BUT not one of them would go out on strike again (unless it was a local matter ), because they all think that the CWU HQ are clueless and would just replace a SH*T deal with another SH*T deal.

That position might change in the face of a real strike ballot, but I doubt it.

If this is how the CWU HQ are seen up & down the country then that is probably why the CWU HQ is trying to change the agreement without calling for a strike over the failing RM plan - They probably know that they wouldn't get the backing. RM know this too...so they're not going to give away too much either.

So where do we go from here ?

[Godric]

not one single revision put in Ayrshire is working that is a fact, Ayr has their revision inJanuary and Prestwick (the office i work in) has our revision sometime in the spring, our neighbouring office Troon has had their revision in now for a year and it is still a disaster, postmen deliverying to 5pm and the manager also doing deliveries on a regular basis, our office has been told we could be getting our last feed of mail after 10 am .... how can that be classed as modernisation

Have to agree with Dingo, didnt see any posts from the usual suspects saying , come on prove it prove it, after all i presume Ayrshire is a pretty big place, certainly bigger than Wolverhampton, and of course they are failing , so are believed , double standards methinks.

If people bother to read my posts, then they will have picked up the points, that there are people who despise the changes, but have managed through negotiation, to get the best out of it they could.

And Yes I do work at ROYAL MAIL, SUN ST, WOLVERHAMPTON, DO an MC together,

Oh hang on that means my posts cant be trusted, LOL, what twisted minds some of the usual suspects have.

rant over.

Ayrshire has roughly a population of 350,000 as it is mainly a rural shire with no cities ... i am not saying their isn't areas that are doing ok ... i was just stating a fact that the revisions in Ayrshire so far are a mitagating disaster .... you say wolverhampton is a success .... how would Wolverhampton fared if they didn't make the part timers up to full time ?? ... in Ayrshire and many other areas the part timers are remaining part time ... i can very rarely talk with my dom as he spend the bulk of his time in troon mainly on delivery as he manages 2 small d/o offices

[clashcityrocker]

Union adopts "give em enough rope " strategy,

Would this be in line with Billy Hayes' Safe European Home strategy.

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk lets remind ourselfs of the what really happened. Despite a conference policy which said that we did not agree Pegasus revisons until there was a national agreement over 200 offices agreed one.

It is not correct that delivery offices voted against the agreement.

Fishtank no one is blaming the members , however I do believe in collective responsibility , why do some choose to agree a revison which they know won't work and why do people accept bullying. Now I dont blame them if they have raised this up to the Branch , divisional and Nationally but if they have not done this then I do question why if they want help they have not alerted people to what is happening. Part of the talks have agreed joint visits to offices and these reports will then be communicated , hopefully they will visit some of thE offices listed so we can have a full reports on what is actually happening.

[dvbuk55]

Dvbuk lets remind ourselfs of the what really happened. Despite a conference policy which said that we did not agree Pegasus revisons until there was a national agreement over 200 offices agreed one.

It is not correct that delivery offices voted against the agreement.

Fishtank no one is blaming the members , however I do believe in collective responsibility , why do some choose to agree a revison which they know won't work and why do people accept bullying. Now I dont blame them if they have raised this up to the Branch , divisional and Nationally but if they have not done this then I do question why if they want help they have not alerted people to what is happening. Part of the talks have agreed joint visits to offices and these reports will then be communicated , hopefully they will visit some of thE offices listed so we can have a full reports on what is actually happening.

That's 200 out of 1500 and considerably LESS than those offices who have had a revision under the current agreement and realistically was Pegasus revisions any worse than the current ones even without an agreement. They certainly didn't involve a pay cut!!! I did not say that delivery offices voted against the agreement I said they thought it was crap but was persuaded by the silver tongued platform speakers on the famous "Get a YES vote at any cost" roadshow and some of the posters on here who were more than effusive in their recommendations. Particularly when told at the time "There is NO Plan B" only to be told later down the line that there was a plan B but we didn't want to mention it.

There is no defence to the unions lack of openness in the dealings they carry out without the agreement of the membership and then believe in collective responsibility when the plot goes tits up. I have heard the expression many times on this forum "grow a pair" and that is exactly what the union hierarchy should do - hold up their hands and say we got this terribly wrong, it hasn't worked and more importantly SORRY to the offices that are continually struggling with a multitude of problems.

As for the membership consultation - what a good idea - sadly restricted to a few when what was needed was a member by member consultation.

[axeman]

Dvbuk lets remind ourselfs of the what really happened. Despite a conference policy which said that we did not agree Pegasus revisons until there was a national agreement over 200 offices agreed one.

It is not correct that delivery offices voted against the agreement.

Fishtank no one is blaming the members , however I do believe in collective responsibility , why do some choose to agree a revison which they know won't work and why do people accept bullying. Now I dont blame them if they have raised this up to the Branch , divisional and Nationally but if they have not done this then I do question why if they want help they have not alerted people to what is happening. Part of the talks have agreed joint visits to offices and these reports will then be communicated , hopefully they will visit some of thE offices listed so we can have a full reports on what is actually happening.

My guess they don't accept bullying but as there is NO effective leadership within the cwu area , national..... they are left to fend off intolerable threats from royal fails henchmen and our so called union leaders and the understudys stand by and ..'Protect London'
There are many more offices with revisions that are failing but not listed (mine included) the union does ? ...... Yes nothing what a suprise but hey you are paying the top table a good living wage what do they care