Have you been a victim of the Atos assessment process

[TeeferTiger]

I read on the DWP website the other day, that I am actually eligible for ESA.Whereas they deemed me "fit for work" because I was able to attend the assessment (for 20 mins on one day). At the time, I had work to attend. However, would you want to go on delivery with a debilitating migraine? If the answer is yes, you are clearly missing your vocation in S&M.

However, now I don't have work to attend after IHR, so my ESA is technically what was the Incapacity Benefit. My appeal is technically no longer valid as the circumstances have changed.

Either way, I'm entitled to ESA whether they like it or not. And if they won't give me ESA, I'll get the same money on Job seekers and just carry on doing what I'm doing- applying for work and getting nowhere because of my illness!

[bedfordrl]

There is an interesting article in the Private Eye about ATOS under the heading of "What a bunch of Atossers"

Apparently" ATOS claim that its contract is to look at what people can do, rather than diagnosing a condition."For this reason a thorough physical examination is not necessarily appropriate"it said. Which is why,no doubt,ATOS has been accused of turning down people with advanced cancers and severe mental illness-and why it loses so many appeals .
These tibunals are estimated to cost up to £50 million a year-paid for by the tax payers and not out of the ATOS budget. "

[norbert]

the Private Eye article just click on it - I've made the scan sharp without being too big a file ( 545 x 960 pixels ) http://www.private-eye.co.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[TeeferTiger]

Thanks for that article, very interesting reading.

I know their argument will be "well you can work on the days when you're not in pain/whatever", but what employer would take someone on who can just turn up whenever?! lol Do you know of any jobs, and are there any within a few miles of where I live?!

[norbert]

Author: jehane
Comment:
Ok. As a benefits caseworker for a charity, and previous DWP employee, I've dealt with thousands of benefit claimants, personally. I've helped people claim benefits, I've fought their case to get the right benefits when errors have been made, dealt with hundreds of appeals, and even taken cases of those who have been accused of fraud (often wrongly).

In my experience the rate of fraud is quite low. When people are commiting fraud, for most it is not in order to make bags of cash, but is due to other factors such as, the level of benefits they are on being so low that they have difficulties making ends meet, or mental health problems, or misunderstanding the benefit rules. All of these people would be included in fraud figures. Very few are the deliberate, organised, 2 or 3 houses, bently driving type, or marathon running DLA claiming type - though I have come across a couple over the years.

The problem with these types of programmes is that they make it seem firstly as if all fraud is the same as the extreme examples given - which it isn't. And secondly that all benefit claimants are fraudsters.

And onto the ATOS issue which still people don't seem to understand.

I've represented a couple of hundred people appealing their ESA, ATOS decisions, with a very high success rate - much higher than the general success rate.

Firstly these ATOS assessments have very little to do with how sick someone is, they are a question and answer session about ability to do certain tasks. The assessor will then attempt to limit the answers to yes or no or shortest answer possible, and will make assumptions about the answers given. For instance, answering that you have a dog will lead to the assumption that you feed, walk and take care of the dog, even if someone else does this - they generally don't bother with the follow up question. Answering yes to 'do you do your own shopping' leads to the assumption that you walk around the supermarket, carry bags etc - even if you order your groceries online and the driver brings the bags into your kitchen.

I could give many more examples, but the fact is that it is those assuming it is a fair 'medical' that fall foul of these tactics - they don't understand that yes/no answers are not sufficient - they don't know they need to fight to get across how their illness or disability affects them, and many, particularly those with mental health problems aren't capable of fighting their corner. Genuine people trust that the system will be fair - and its not.

And I haven't even gone into some of the outright lies I've seen on the ATOS medical forms.

And just to put to rest another common confusion, the work related activity group for ESA does not mean fit for work - it doesn't even mean ready for work soon. The best description would be not severe enough to be in the support group, but not fit for work. Most people placed in the support group are severely sick or disabled, requiring help from others on a regular basis, or barely functional in daily life or nearly at deaths door. And even then, if you answer the questions wrong, you can be at death's door and still fail the assessment.

I doubt anything I say will affect those who enjoy their confirmation bias (daily fail readers, for example), but I just wanted to put my experienced view point across.

See all comments on this post here:
http://liberalconspiracy.org/2011/11/03 ... /#comments" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[southcoast_postie]

Author: jehane
Comment:
Ok. As a benefits caseworker for a charity, and previous DWP employee, I've dealt with thousands of benefit claimants, personally. I've helped people claim benefits, I've fought their case to get the right benefits when errors have been made, dealt with hundreds of appeals, and even taken cases of those who have been accused of fraud (often wrongly).

In my experience the rate of fraud is quite low. When people are commiting fraud, for most it is not in order to make bags of cash, but is due to other factors such as, the level of benefits they are on being so low that they have difficulties making ends meet, or mental health problems, or misunderstanding the benefit rules. All of these people would be included in fraud figures. Very few are the deliberate, organised, 2 or 3 houses, bently driving type, or marathon running DLA claiming type - though I have come across a couple over the years.

The problem with these types of programmes is that they make it seem firstly as if all fraud is the same as the extreme examples given - which it isn't. And secondly that all benefit claimants are fraudsters.



And onto the ATOS issue which still people don't seem to understand.

I've represented a couple of hundred people appealing their ESA, ATOS decisions, with a very high success rate - much higher than the general success rate.

Firstly these ATOS assessments have very little to do with how sick someone is, they are a question and answer session about ability to do certain tasks. The assessor will then attempt to limit the answers to yes or no or shortest answer possible, and will make assumptions about the answers given. For instance, answering that you have a dog will lead to the assumption that you feed, walk and take care of the dog, even if someone else does this - they generally don't bother with the follow up question. Answering yes to 'do you do your own shopping' leads to the assumption that you walk around the supermarket, carry bags etc - even if you order your groceries online and the driver brings the bags into your kitchen.

I could give many more examples, but the fact is that it is those assuming it is a fair 'medical' that fall foul of these tactics - they don't understand that yes/no answers are not sufficient - they don't know they need to fight to get across how their illness or disability affects them, and many, particularly those with mental health problems aren't capable of fighting their corner. Genuine people trust that the system will be fair - and its not.

And I haven't even gone into some of the outright lies I've seen on the ATOS medical forms.

And just to put to rest another common confusion, the work related activity group for ESA does not mean fit for work - it doesn't even mean ready for work soon. The best description would be not severe enough to be in the support group, but not fit for work. Most people placed in the support group are severely sick or disabled, requiring help from others on a regular basis, or barely functional in daily life or nearly at deaths door. And even then, if you answer the questions wrong, you can be at death's door and still fail the assessment.

I doubt anything I say will affect those who enjoy their confirmation bias (daily fail readers, for example), but I just wanted to put my experienced view point across.

See all comments on this post here:
http://liberalconspiracy.org/2011/11/03 ... /#comments" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What a very interesting reflection of your obvious expertise , thanks! ...... Today I have been telephoned by ATOS to say I have to appear at a medical some 30 miles from me. I saw an ATOS Doctor about 6 weeks ago (have been off for 6 months now with PMR, ) seeing a consultant at a local hospital since June..... so should I avoid the 'one word answers'? only giving what I feel is appropriate describing my condition? IHR has not been mentioned by them, only my DOM in passing.....am 60 soon

[TeeferTiger]

ATOS with RM are NOWHERE NEAR (and I cannot stress that enough) as bad as ATOS for the DWP. ATOS for RM were brilliant with me. One Dr I went to go and see would've made a brilliant CWU rep I thought lol He told ME I wasn't fit for work and that if I did go back, they'd only be pressuring me to do more than I was able before his guidelines stated anyway... I just sat there in stunned silence. Which, as my husband will testify, doesn't happen often.

[keithposty]

the difference with you was that you were seen by a registered and qualified doctor

not a spotty oik telephone drone with a diagnose me.com in front of him/her

lima--- logic,investigative, medical, assessmant it is called

(sorry atos, cat is out the bag)

sorry, health care professional

[holland]

had a face to face with atos .
been recommended for a FUNCTIONAL RESTORATION PROGRAMME ?
any info , still waiting to hear of them.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

had a face to face with atos .
been recommended for a FUNCTIONAL RESTORATION PROGRAMME ?
any info , still waiting to hear of them.

Your not Steve Austin are you.

[fishtank]

had a face to face with atos .
been recommended for a FUNCTIONAL RESTORATION PROGRAMME ?
any info , still waiting to hear of them.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/msd/experience/restoration.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[norbert]

http://victimsofatoscorruption.wordpres ... an-told-he" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;’s-fit-to-work-by-benefit-assessors/

" A father-of-four awaiting a kidney transplant and on benefits has been told that he is fit to work and could lose his benefits, despite being signed off work by his doctor until February.

Former builder Carl Farrow, 43, of Robin Hood Road, Tuckswood, receives £67 a week employment and support allowance, which replaced incapacity benefit.

He was diagnosed with adult polycystic kidney disease – an inherited disease which can lead to kidney failure – seven years ago and is awaiting a transplant at Addenbrooke’s Hospital in Cambridge.



Thanks to his brother, who is donating a kidney, this will take place in January next year.

His deteriorating health forced him to give up his job as a self-employed builder in March, since when he has been receiving the £67 allowance

But all claimants must now attend a work capability assessment, which determines whether someone is fit for work, and to his amazement he was told he was fit to work. He has appealed against the decision and it has now gone to a tribunal, but if he loses the appeal, he will lose the weekly allowance.

Mr Farrow, left, said: “It’s not fair. My kidney is only functioning at 14pc of its capacity, and their decision goes against all the doctors who have signed me off work until February.

“I had an assessment and they checked my movements and whether I could use my arms and legs, sit in a chair and then get up, and because I could, they said it proved I was fit to work.

“But it just took in what was visible and obviously there’s nothing you can see about my condition. But it makes me very tired and leaves me without the energy to do any kind of work, let alone building work, which is all I’ve ever done. I’m also in a lot of pain and I feel nauseous.”

NORWICH EVENING NEWS 24

The Tories want the right to appeal to be stopped , they're paranoid about some people dragging out the appeal process to stay in the Assessment phase , OK you might get the odd professional claimer / old soldier but these are necessary evils to be tolerated unless you want to be Holier than thou - which means you'll get challenged & contradicted ...what they plan is a return to the 1930's and The Panel

http://tompride.wordpress.com/2011/11/0 ... -for-work/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

" In an effort to simplify the test used to assess whether people on sickness or disability benefits are fit enough to work, the government has reduced the questionnaire to just one yes or no question – ‘Are you alive?‘

But according to experts, the simplified computer test, which the government pays French IT firm ATOS £100 million a year to administer, still gets the assessments wrong 70% of the time. A spokesperson for ATOS said:

No test is perfect and we admit we’re still getting it wrong sometimes. If you ask someone the question “are you alive” and the person answers “no” it’s obvious which box to tick but if for example, assessors receive an answer such as “barely”, which sometimes happens, it may be a problem to make a decision.
The government denies it has set quotas whereby ATOS must find 70% of dead people fit for employment whether they are able to work or not. A spokesperson for the Department of Work and Pensions said:

If the person is clearly dead, then they can claim incapacity benefit but it’s possible a certain percentage of people who claim they are dead may be swinging the lead and we want to make sure they really are unable to work.
The government has also promised to weed out any people who may be technically deceased but despite their condition are still eligible for work. The DWP spokesperson explained:

You only need to look at Rupert Murdoch to see someone who looks like he’s dead but in fact is most likely alive. Allegations that he’s a special case because he is actually a member of the undead whose aim is to sap the will to live out of every living being have absolutely no basis in fact. Probably. "

[mazza111]

Well, I've just had a letter from them to complete the questionairre. Well someone with my old name has.....

I've been using my *new* name for almost 6 years, been to ATOS with RM with my new name, claimed JSA and now ESA with my new name and ATOS see fit to call me my by x husband's name after all these years. Think the trouble with them might be starting for me with them now, don't you lol

[norbert]

‎" Radionics machines (1920s - 1960s):

Radionics was a process created in the early 1900s by American doctor Albert Abrams by which a physician could supposedly diagnose patients without even meeting them in person. All that was needed was a sample of hair, blood or even handwriting or a photo "

Atos Origin do that !

RM also have managers that are absolutely wasted on propping up Yorkies and drinking coffee and slavish dedication to obeying diktats from way on high , they're experts in Heart Problems , Cancer , Musco - Skeletal injuries and others too numerous to mention .

[andy2007]

had a face to face with atos .
been recommended for a FUNCTIONAL RESTORATION PROGRAMME ?
any info , still waiting to hear of them.

Your not Steve Austin are you.

Are you kidding?
This is RM and ATOSsers we're talking about here. It's more likley to be the £6 man.

But seriously: My only good experiences with ATOSsers have been with face to face, consultations. With QUALIFIED DOCTORS, rather than some idiot on the phone, with an "expert system" (in this case, I use the term very loosely!) on the screen in front of them. The rest of the time, they've been arrogant (ignoring the advice of QUALIFIED Doctors, Specialists, etc.), aggressive (on more than one occasion), incompetant, and arguably negligent.