HOLIDAYS NO LONGER DONE ON SENIORITY

[keithposty]

WELL ME BEING ON THE SICK, THE OTHER REP AT A SECTION MEETING,

I GET A PHONE CALL THIS MORNING FROM A MEMBER STATING THAT FROM NOW ON

ALL HOLIDAYS WILL BE BOOKED ON FIRST COME ,FIRST SERVED BASIS

DISAGREEMENT BEING TYPED UP AS WE SPEAK BUT I AM HAVING NONE OF THIS

I WILL CALL A BALLOT IF I HAVE TO

COMMENTS PLEASE PEOPLE AND IS THIS HAPPENING IN OTHER BRANCHES

[col456xyz]

in our office holidays have not been done on seniority for years
any pre booked holidays with booking form are honoured
the rest of the staffs holiday request forms are put in a box and are drawn by rep and numbered
this is then the order holidays are given
seems to work and no major problems etc
we are a very large mpu with over 360 staff.

[keithposty]

RIGHT OR WRONG

WE HAVE ALLWAYS DECIDED HOLIDAY IN OUR OFFICE (160 STAFF) on seniority

why i am angry at this is that this policy was decided with no contact with any cwu rep prior to this mornings announcement, or mentioned to the rep in the weekly resource meeting

be it acceptable or not

NO CONSULTATUION

[fishtank]

Both the Way Forward;Seniority..http://www.cwu-e4.co.uk/files/wf-seniority.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And the Way Forward;Annual Leave Allocation...http://www.cwu.org/assets/_files/docume ... and_De.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

State that seniority should NOT be used for allocating annual leave.
To be honest i'm surprised so many offices have got away with it for so long.
That said neither is a first come,first served system fair and i wouldn't be having that either so use the disagreement process by all means but don't cite seniority because that won't cut it.

[keithposty]

SORRY FISHTANK

can you cut and paste the relevant parts about seniority not to be used when deciding annual leave on both links

many thanks

[Wessex]

In a way that would be fairer on younger posties whose kids would not have grown up yet to get half term holidays , although I suppose the older posties might now be grandparents and want the same days.

[fishtank]

The Way Forward Seniority states...

Note also that seniority will not be used for leave selection (except possibly to allocate employees
into rotating groups) once local leave selection processes have been reviewed. This will be
necessary to conform with the criteria set out in the agreement on Annual Leave: “all employees will be included on an equal basis”

The Way Forward Annual Leave states...

sen2.jpg

[MinisterofCucumber]

The argument that is being used to get rid of seniority is that a seniority system discriminates against the young (on percentages) and breaches the Equality Act.

I am also against seniority because the argument that those who have been here longest should have first pick of the communal assets is the same argument used by nationalists to insist that white British tribes should get the best council housing regardless of need, and white British tribal members should get the best paid public sector jobs regardless of ability.

Seniority implies that some people are more important than others and sets us up to be divided and ruled.

Annual leave weeks should be shared out fairly so that everyone gets the opportunity to have their fair share of prime weeks. First come, first served is not right either because it's demeaning. It's a bit like management are getting pleasure from throwing coins into a crowd of beggars to watch them fight each other for the coins.

[keithposty]

thanks for that

it has allways been my understanding that seniority is done on length of service, and not age

so where is the discrimination???

[fishtank]

thanks for that

it has allways been my understanding that seniority is done on length of service, and not age

so where is the discrimination???

...because you can't have 20 years service if you're 25.
Seniority is a contentious issue,there are many grey areas,on allocating jobs i think it is still relevant IF the workload AND earning opportunities are reasonably balanced.
The alternatives are drawing lots for jobs or allowing management to look after their favourites,neither of which floats my boat.
On leave allocation though i believe the use of seniority is blatantly unfair.
The same guys get first pick of the best holidays every year?...not in my office.

[keithposty]

again i understand your reasoning but everybody has to sstart at the bottom to begin with and work there way up

the longer you have been in the job, more entitlement

or are you now saying giving six weeks leave instead of 28 days is not discriminatory just because you have done 20 years service

[fishtank]

As i said Keith there are many grey areas.
What is important is that you strike a balance between reward for service and discrimination against younger members.
There are no hard and fast rules but in my opinion rewarding members with extra leave after a certain period of service is fine,allowing senior members control over the holiday allocation year after year...is not.
It is only an opinion but it is one that the union as a whole shared if only in words and not action.

[MinisterofCucumber]

Seniority can also be challenged as indirect discrimination because the majority of juniors are younger.

Maybe the extra leave after 10 years service is also discriminatory. It may be another 'favour' that could be used to blackmail us.

The main point is that using seniority to pick annual leave is unfair. If you are a fairminded person, you shouldn't be supporting a practise that is discriminatory, especially if you benefit from it.

Your problem is that you probably have members that believe they are more important than other humans they work with and they will put pressure on you to keep their perks. Get your Area Rep to tell them that the Union can't support seniority because if we supported seniority, we would be supporting the policies of parties like the BNP and this is against Union rules and a rep could face disciplinary action by the Union for supporting the aims and objectives of racist organisations.

[Judgee]

We do one year seniority gets first pick, the next year juniority gets first pick, the next year seniority, etc. Seems to me this is about as fair a system as you can get!

[gb93]

No justification for annual leave done on seniority at all.
Get a fair rotation system sorted that gives all staff equal rights on holidays due.