20/20 or 40 minute break/ walk delivery span break

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

as for customs and practice as long as they give proper notification to change the standard practice they can do that



NOT WITHOUT A LOCAL AGREEMENT THEY CANT

ITS CALLED AN IMPLIED TERM IN YOUR CONTRACT OF EMPLOYMENT

YeS your quite correct it is an implied term in your contract, they can change any part of your contract implied or not at any time as long as they give notice and they do not need a local agreement

[keithposty]

PLEASE, I AM NOT HAVING A GO BUT TELL ME

WHERE IN THE EMPLOYMENT RIGHTS ACT DOES IT STATE THEY CAN DO THIS

CONTRACTS CAN BE CHANGED BUT ONLY BY GOING THROUGH AN AGREED CONSULTATION PERIOD

YOUR ASSUMPTION IS A CHANGE OF CONTRACT BY A NATIONAL AGREEMENT, NOT LOCAL

TO JUSTIFY A CHANGE OF CONTRACT COMES UnDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS

POLITICAL
ECONOMIC
SOCIAL
TECHNOLOGICAL

as well as

(enviromental)

or pest for short

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

You just proved my point, as long as they follow the correct process they can change any term of your contract, as they are only changing a locally agreed term they can do this locally, they can simply come up with a reason that fits, have their local consultation, remember its a consultation not an agreement they must do. After that give the relevant notice and change the term to whatever they want,

Oh and please stop shouting at me its a little rude

[Decky Boy]

Firstly, employers can do anything they like regarding employment contracts and conditions of work... and often do. Whether any changes are fair or unlawfull is a seperate matter and one that has to be attended to if and when any changes are implemented. What will you do if your terms and conditions are altered ?

Secondly, What do you currently do if you need a piss or the toilet ? If there is not enough time to complete the work in contracted hours simply claim the overtime or tell the boss the job is unmanagable and his planning is pants ! Don't bullshit anyone, take pride in the job, do it right and get stuck in. However if it's unmanageable, then it's unmanageable.

[keithposty]

Firstly, employers can do anything they like regarding employment contracts and conditions of work... and often do. Whether any changes are fair or unlawfull is a seperate matter

i totally agree with the above, if the employee is not satisfied with any changes, he/she has three options

1/ accept the change
2/ accept the change and work under protest
3/ resign and claim unfair/constructive dismissal

in royal mails case the above is irrelevant as we have the CWU and the ir framework,
so we operate under different characteristics on normal contractual employment law

royal mail call it executive action
we call it industrial action

[keithposty]

lets all have an honest discussion from now on and no back stabbing please

be it 40 minute, 20-20 break, whatever

the agreement stipulates wellfare will be part of the delivery span, we can all agree on that

now even if you have a 20 minute break while on delivery, should that 20 minute break be taken looking/driving for say a macdonalds for bodily functions and there by using up your break allowance, a break by definition is down time

[fishtank]

now even if you have a 20 minute break while on delivery, should that 20 minute break be taken looking/driving for say a macdonalds for bodily functions and there by using up your break allowance, a break by definition is down time

Suitable welfare facilities should be identified during the planning process.
These are entered into the duty walklog.
Nowhere in any of the agreements,guidelines or revision tools does it say you have to use them during your break.
I'm not that confident that i can pee to order keith.

[keithposty]

its having the welfare bult into the delivery span that is the question, you can take a pee at any time, its just the time allowance getting to a designated place to do it and return to your delivery point

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

i dont think there is much realistic chance of getting it built into the duty structure, reason being how much time do you get built in?

say your manager actually does him job and gets an agreement from a shop for the postie to use their toilet, the shop is located roughly half way round their walk, after about an hour into their walk they need the loo, so off postie goes to shop to use the facilities, round trip takes him 25 min, next day similar situation but he is a lot closer to shop this time, round trip only takes him 10 minutes, how much time do you build into a duty? every person is different, cant legislate a set time as a postie might need longer and other way postie might not need to go at all, i know of absolutely no job where the length of an acceptable toilet break is written down into the hours of work,

you should and do have the right to take a toilet break at any time during your work hours for as long or as short as you need

[welshy808]

Keith, read Royal Mail's document titled
"Delivery Duty Design Principles For Bundled Revisions"
Page 9 Managing Fatigue and Staff Welfare
I downloaded it from this site but can't remember from which thread

it states that Meal relief must be planned to be taken "before or at the middle of the delivery and not left to the end"
it also states "appropriate consideration must be given to scheduling of meal breaks, identification of welfare facilities and ensuring that the appropriate equipment is utilised."
This shows that Royal Mail expects planners to build in time for welfare facilities separate from meal relief as your full entitlement to meal relief must be planned to be taken with half of your delivery left. i.e. up to 3 hours left in shared vehicle, up to 3hours 45 mins on a rural, etc.

hopefully someone can post the link to the document

[keithposty]

some rational thinking at last

and not following doctrine

a link would be nice

[welshy808]

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 19#p329773" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

try this

[fishtank]

a link would be nice

You did post on the thread keith.
You should already have a copy.

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... es#p433450" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Decky Boy]

Re my above post (Keithpostie) you suggest a disgruntled employee has only 3 options, surely he has a fourth... the right to raise a grievance and persue it to conclusion (which may be an Employment Tribunal ?)

You also state "in royal mails case the above is irrelevant as we have the CWU and the ir framework,
so we operate under different characteristics on normal contractual employment law

royal mail call it executive action
we call it industrial action"

How or why is a grievance of mine "royal mail's case" ? and you suggest options of disagreement as " irrelevant as we have the CWU and the ir framework" so we operate under different charactersistics on (to ?) normal contractual law"

With all due respect I can't quite understand the above... It sounds like shite to me. Not every employee belongs to the CWU. Some are unionless and others are trades union members through other Unions. If I feel the employer is acting unjustly I usually raise a grievance and an outcome is reached (either positive or negative)

Will you really call for strike action if a time value for toilet stops is not itemised in any new duty ?

PS : What is ir framework ?

[keithposty]

deckyboy

i take it you do not belong to a trade union or know how a trade union operates in an organisation with trade union certification

please confirm

Will you really call for strike action if a time value for toilet stops is not itemised in any new duty ?

that is a leading question for which i have not stated strike action and i object to your insinuation of that fact