Foul Language.

[neilfair]

I'm going to ask a question I think I probably already know the answer to but would appreciate any first hand experiences of the situation:

A colleague doing quite a tough estate in Liverpool has took some stick about delivering late. Not his fault at all, he now has extra duties before he's allowed to leave the office to do a 2 hour delivery. At the end of his tether he's told his abuser to F**K O*F. Not clever at all I know, especially as the abuser had witnesses. Yesterday my colleague was suspended.

How likely is it that RM will just out and out sack him? Clearly it's not his word against the customer's, the customer has witnesses. Is a suspended dismissal a possibility or is the fact the customer was so annoyed as to make an official complaint too good an opportunity for RM to bin an employee for free?

And just to add a bit of petrol to the fire, my colleague is regularly in the office for being, ahum, hot-headed, and doesn't have a brilliant attendance record into the bargain.

Like I say, unfortunately I can take an educated guess as to RM's attitude on this one. Any crumbs of comfort that I'm wrong ?!?!?!

[dvbuk55]

Well he hasn't helped his case by his past performance but he might try to put forward a case of stress due to continual abuse - in this instance. It would also depend on who the recipient of his comment was, some layabout or a granny. Had he reported the abuse for example and been ignored? Had he asked for a change of duty and been ignored?

[blackadder]

if i was him i be looking for another job. we both know what r.m will want to do

[Lounge Lizard]

I'm going to ask a question I think I probably already know the answer to but would appreciate any first hand experiences of the situation:

A colleague doing quite a tough estate in Liverpool has took some stick about delivering late. Not his fault at all, he now has extra duties before he's allowed to leave the office to do a 2 hour delivery. At the end of his tether he's told his abuser to F**K O*F. Not clever at all I know, especially as the abuser had witnesses. Yesterday my colleague was suspended.

How likely is it that RM will just out and sack him? Clearly it's not his word against the customer's, the customer has witnesses. Is a suspended dismissal a possibility or is the fact the customer was so annoyed as to make an official complaint too good an opportunity for RM to bin an employee for free?

And just to add a bit of petrol to the fire, my colleague is regularly in the office for being, ahum, hot-headed, and doesn't have a brilliant attendance record into the bargain.

Like I say, unfortunately I can take an educated guess as to RM's attitude on this one. Any crumbs of comfort that I'm wrong ?!?!?!

"and doesn't have a brilliant attendance record" - this isn't Peter since he's been with Tillyboo, is it ?

[emmaa_uk]

I'm going to ask a question I think I probably already know the answer to but would appreciate any first hand experiences of the situation:

A colleague doing quite a tough estate in Liverpool has took some stick about delivering late. Not his fault at all, he now has extra duties before he's allowed to leave the office to do a 2 hour delivery. At the end of his tether he's told his abuser to F**K O*F. Not clever at all I know, especially as the abuser had witnesses. Yesterday my colleague was suspended.

How likely is it that RM will just out and out sack him? Clearly it's not his word against the customer's, the customer has witnesses. Is a suspended dismissal a possibility or is the fact the customer was so annoyed as to make an official complaint too good an opportunity for RM to bin an employee for free?

And just to add a bit of petrol to the fire, my colleague is regularly in the office for being, ahum, hot-headed, and doesn't have a brilliant attendance record into the bargain.

Like I say, unfortunately I can take an educated guess as to RM's attitude on this one. Any crumbs of comfort that I'm wrong ?!?!?!

I too told a customer to f off because he was so blatently rude but there were no witnesses lol

[neilfair]

And the outcome as you've sadly forecast was the sack. Once the suspension went beyond two or three weeks we feared the worst. Please, please, people. Don't give these b*ggers an excuse. Next year this postie had a decent chance of redundancy. He had an even better chance of IHR because his Doctor had diagnosed depression only recently and as you know as little as 12 weeks on the sick these days will trigger possible IHR. So that's £19,000 lost by the postie and saved by RM for the sake of a couple of expletives.

A slanging match is not worthy of the sack. I doubt the customer will be too pleased when they find out unless they're particularly vindictive. But once you place an incident like this in RM's hands you are exposing the employee to grave danger. My view though is when a member of the public slags off RM for customer values you agree with them wholeheartedly. If they tell you "you're f*cking late", reply that "you want to try working for the g*ts, they don't give a dam about anyone".

An appeal is being considered but as I say, the postie has played completely into RM's hands. They'll just say they're protecting the company's image even though we all know that's complete hypocrisy.

I repeat, TRY AND KEEP A COOL HEAD EVEN WHEN IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO DO SO. Think damage limitation. Even if you have got yourself in a pickle don't keep digging. You may be able to undo some of the harm later but don't give yourself a mountain to climb. However stressed, depressed and angry this postie felt at the time, right now the situation is even more dire. Last payslip this Friday and then not a very sympathetic meeting with the state benefits people

[dvbuk55]

If he was diagnosed with depression prior to the incident then there would be an argument that perhaps he shouldn't have been in a customer facing environment whilst under treatment. A thorough investigation of the medication side effects would probably be helpful especially with a supporting note from his doctor.

[POSTMAN]

He didn't get the sack for swearing at some scrote,he got the sack because they 'could' sack him.

[Himaggen]

If he was diagnosed with depression prior to the incident then there would be an argument that perhaps he shouldn't have been in a customer facing environment whilst under treatment. A thorough investigation of the medication side effects would probably be helpful especially with a supporting note from his doctor.

The facts of this case cannot be argued, but circumstances can help towards explaining the action taken. The symptoms of the diagnosed depression alone may be sufficient to build a case for mitigation. If the diagnosis was, as you say, recent then it seems likely that any resultant treatment may not have yet been effective enough to prevent those symptoms re-occurring.

I would suggest that the only course of action open to them would be to speak to their 'medical professional' about what has happened and see if their is anything they can advise.

[neilfair]

The argument put forward here is a good one and an approach that will no doubt be adopted at the appeal. I think the postie is more likely to get joy at a tribunal with this mitigation though than at at a Royal Mail appeal. It's my perception that RM appeals are done just to ensure the DOM has correctly followed procedures. If he's dotted all the 'i's and crossed all the 't's then the appeals manager upholds the sacking. I may be wrong on that and other people might have had different experiences. But the appeals process doesn't strike me as a second chance saloon unless some startling new evidence comes to light. I'm sure depression as mitigation has already been flagged up to the DOM.

BTW, the guy (DOM) is an absolute GIT. He takes pride in his toughness. He wont lose a second's sleep over this decision and I doubt he would if the postie went on to do something rash.

[DB1100]

I would make sure I bump into the abuser again,on a dark night