TALKS HAVE BEEN EXTENDED TILL SUNDAY!

[The Inspector]

The 'Way Forward' was - & remains - a crock of s**t! I 'joined up' in 1999 - it seems a millenium away now - too late to have a say in the course that our masters (sic) - were taking. I am assured that those involved in the con - have been removed - & hopefully shot!

Stay positive - those in control know that - the very survival of our Union - is at stake. I care not - that the biggest spur will be - their cozy billet aboard the gravy-train at Wimpleb*m. A fired-up & efficient mercenary - is worth 100's of ineffectual men of principle - in a dirty battle where failing - is not an option.

[BELIAL]

One way of increasing the chances of maintaining membership unity and support for action might be to conduct negotiations in a transparent manner and keep everyone fully informed.

It seems obvious to me from reading many of the previous posts that the secret nature of these talks has created doubt, confusion and division; none of which serve our cause.

RM do not need mass solidarity to achieve thier objectives, we do. Any course of action that even slightly weakens our resolve is surely a mistake?

Hope for a positive outcome by all means, but blind faith and slavish obedience could lead us all down a very rocky road.

[trojan]

Good on yer codebreaker stay positive as we all should, for those who have posted about being re-ballotted for IA i've done some research , there is no need to re-ballott as the IA was only suspended not called off.

And as i understand it the PEC are meeting Monday, so expect no announcement until Monday pm at the earliest, i also believe that the extended 5 days are for making sure nothing has been missed and dont forget it's US who will decide if this a good deal or not we must be ballotted on it.

[lovejoy]

Good on yer codebreaker stay positive as we all should, for those who have posted about being re-ballotted for IA i've done some research , there is no need to re-ballott as the IA was only suspended not called off.

And as i understand it the PEC are meeting Monday, so expect no announcement until Monday pm at the earliest, i also believe that the extended 5 days are for making sure nothing has been missed and dont forget it's US who will decide if this a good deal or not we must be ballotted on it.

spot on Trojan. Lets all just wait and see and like you say WE will have the final decision anyway!

We are heading for big change and this is our opportunity to shape that change for our benefit!

[barkersboy]

Belial your right. Members in our office were shocked when the strike was suspended. We wanted the talks yes but we did not want the pressure taken off RM. Now we are told to wait another week. Not gone down well with our members. The feeling here is that we might get a national agreement to please RM while the union gets shafted like we did with the Way Forward agreement. This agreement (if there is one) will have to have the i's dotted and the t's crossed and no parts that can misinterpreted by either side. If we can't have that then lets bin it and really hurt them this time.

[rhino49]

Good on yer codebreaker stay positive as we all should, for those who have posted about being re-ballotted for IA i've done some research , there is no need to re-ballott as the IA was only suspended not called off.

And as i understand it the PEC are meeting Monday, so expect no announcement until Monday pm at the earliest, i also believe that the extended 5 days are for making sure nothing has been missed and dont forget it's US who will decide if this a good deal or not we must be ballotted on it.

Well put Trojan - you have reassured me and I am sure many others.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I am almost certain you can agree with the employer that if your in talks you do not need to keep the ballot live and that you can resume at anytime IA.

correct

Reading the above at

http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file18013.pdf

Paragraph 52 says

52. Where continuous industrial action is suspended, for example for further negotiations between the employer and union, the union must normally give the employer a further notice as in paragraphs 50 and 51 above before resuming the action. There is an exception to this requirement to give further notice, however, where the union agrees with the employer that the industrial action will cease to be authorised or endorsed with effect from a date specified in the agreement but may be authorised or endorsed again on or after another date specified in the agreement and the union:-

• ceases to authorise or endorse the action with effect from the specified date; and

• subsequently re-authorises or reendorses the action from a date on or after the originally specified date or such later date as may be agreed with
the employer. For this exception to apply, the resumed industrial action must be of the same kind as covered in the original notice. That will not be so if, for example, the later action is taken by different or additional descriptions of workers. In order to avoid misunderstanding, both parties may find it
helpful for such agreements to be in writing.

So we may not need a re-ballot We just have to give them the usual 7 days notice.

[Codebreaker]

Hope for a positive outcome by all means, but blind faith and slavish obedience could lead us all down a very rocky road.

BELIAL, I do not know if you were directing the above comment at anyone in paricular, but if you were, and it were me, then I would respond something like this:

Being positive and relaying that positiivity to others is a good thing. Being negative is more akin to being defeatest.

I stood up as an employee of Royal Mail, not merely for my benefit alone but the benefit of ALL Royal Mail employees (except Managers ). That is positive.

As to "blind faith and slavish obedience", well I for one will never EVER be put in a position to defend that! Nor do I believe MANY of us on here would - we are a little bit better than that.

Every one of us who STOOD TOGETHER during IA should be proud the WE helped to stop Royal Mail repeating their mantra 'the offer is the offer'. WE helped secure Royal Mail come back to the table.

In my personal opinion, I think we should have a little bit more patience, just another few days is all. I think we should be proud, positive, hopeful and have a little bit more faith.

I am sorry if you think I am wrong, but until I get your negative post I will leave you with my own mantra...




GOOD LUCK TO US ALL AND HAVE FAITH

[lovejoy]

Hope for a positive outcome by all means, but blind faith and slavish obedience could lead us all down a very rocky road.

BELIAL, I do not know if you were directing the above comment at anyone in paricular, but if you were, and it were me, then I would respond something like this:

Being positive and relaying that positiivity to others is a good thing. Being negative is more akin to being defeatest.

I stood up as an employee of Royal Mail, not merely for my benefit alone but the benefit of ALL Royal Mail employees (except Managers ). That is positive.

As to "blind faith and slavish obedience", well I for one will never EVER be put in a position to defend that! Nor do I believe MANY of us on here would - we are a little bit better than that.

Every one of us who STOOD TOGETHER during IA should be proud the WE helped to stop Royal Mail repeating their mantra 'the offer is the offer'. WE helped secure Royal Mail come back to the table.

In my personal opinion, I think we should have a little bit more patience, just another few days is all. I think we should be proud, positive, hopeful and have a little bit more faith.

I am sorry if you think I am wrong, but until I get your negative post I will leave you with my own mantra...




GOOD LUCK TO US ALL AND HAVE FAITH

Spot on codebreaker. Anyone would think that we had all already been presented with a dodgy agreement. We've wiatimg for this long. I'm sure we can survive until after the PEC on Monday and if the deal isn't what we want then we'll vote it out and send a clear message to our union and Royal Mail.

Personally I back Ward 100%. He is up for election is February and he cannot afford any slip ups!

[BELIAL]

What exactly do you codebreaker and lovejoy object to in my post? Bit of a recent trend this ,as soon as someone questions the wisdom of our execs. tactics, someone interprets it as personal insult and throws a paddy.
I can find no negatives in my previous post unless you count my questioning of cwu tactics,once again review the threads and correct me if i,m wrong about rumour,doubt and division.
I do not recall directing my points at a specific poster,in fact I know that was not my intention.
If i did not know better i might surmise all this righteous indignation is intended to stifle pertinent debate.
So ,negative me ,no committed and vigilant yes.
Once again, personal attacks do not improve my position one iota,so i've no interest in them. But i'll fight for my right to speak freely,and i certainly won't be put off by people misinterpreting my words or throwing a tantrum.
Better make this bold yes... serious

[buzzer]

Whatever deal we end up with, it wont be half as nice as the deal L&C get, or MP's for that matter.It will be 2.5 or 3.0 for us and 17% for them. Oh! They have to keep inflation down don't they! Think about that when you are crossing your little boxes!

[ianpostie]

What exactly do you codebreaker and lovejoy object to in my post? Bit of a recent trend this ,as soon as someone questions the wisdom of our execs. tactics, someone interprets it as personal insult and throws a paddy.
I can find no negatives in my previous post unless you count my questioning of cwu tactics,once again review the threads and correct me if i,m wrong about rumour,doubt and division.
I do not recall directing my points at a specific poster,in fact I know that was not my intention.
If i did not know better i might surmise all this righteous indignation is intended to stifle pertinent debate.
So ,negative me ,no committed and vigilant yes.
Once again, personal attacks do not improve my position one iota,so i've no interest in them. But i'll fight for my right to speak freely,and i certainly won't be put off by people misinterpreting my words or throwing a tantrum.
Better make this bold yes... serious

indeed it is a recent trend,everyone is entitled to there opinion---but maybe people take offence at the way you word your posts belial?

[smokerjim]

Now you can all tell me to go and get rooted, seeing as I joined RM just as last year's dispute was coming to a close, so I don't proclaim any sort of knowledge - but I will proclaim my opinions.

1. We are still in a position to continue any IA, if RM continue to treat us with contempt.

2. Nothing will be agreed unless we accept that agreement & by that a majority of people that vote, will accept the agreement.

3.As far as I am aware, this is the first RM dispute ( maybe first UK dispute ) that the internet has played a major role in informing all participants - previously ( I assume ) only RM had access to all information & could disseminate and distribute that information across the managerial network as they saw fit.....this time, I as a lowly unknowing AG, had access form all points of the UK, when before, I would have been left wondering what the feeling was in my home office ( I work in Sevenoaks, but live in Rochester, 26 miles away ), let alone Yorks, Lancs, Scotland, Wales, NI, etc

Last time there might have been a shite deal ( from what I've seen here ) & the time before, & the time before & etc....well things are different this time, partly due to the internet, but also because Billy & Dave know that this time is make or break time for the union ( and woe betide them if they don't know it ). Let's all wait for a proposed agreement, then get the result of the ballot on that proposal & then let's see where we are.

In the meantime, I think it would be fair to get a couple of stakes sharpened, so a couple of decapitated heads can be displayed ( L&C or B&H, depending on the result )

[BELIAL]

One way of increasing the chances of maintaining membership unity and support for action might be to conduct negotiations in a transparent manner and keep everyone fully informed.

It seems obvious to me from reading many of the previous posts that the secret nature of these talks has created doubt, confusion and division; none of which serve our cause.

RM do not need mass solidarity to achieve thier objectives, we do. Any course of action that even slightly weakens our resolve is surely a mistake?

Hope for a positive outcome by all means, but blind faith and slavish obedience could lead us all down a very rocky road.

Sorry can't find anything offensive or abusive here I must be lacking in delicate sensitivity.

Lets stop wasting time.

Has the lack of communication, from our communication workers executive during these negotiations about all our working futures, strengthened or weakened our position?

[KawasakiKid]

One way of increasing the chances of maintaining membership unity and support for action might be to conduct negotiations in a transparent manner and keep everyone fully informed.

It seems obvious to me from reading many of the previous posts that the secret nature of these talks has created doubt, confusion and division; none of which serve our cause.

RM do not need mass solidarity to achieve thier objectives, we do. Any course of action that even slightly weakens our resolve is surely a mistake?

Hope for a positive outcome by all means, but blind faith and slavish obedience could lead us all down a very rocky road.

Sorry can't find anything offensive or abusive here I must be lacking in delicate sensitivity.

Lets stop wasting time.

Has the lack of communication, from our communication workers executive during these negotiations about all our working futures, strengthened or weakened our position?

:lfo :cfo Belial, Please accept this post in the neutral tone I offer it. I accept your position that the above quote is not abusive or offensive to any individual on this site. But to whom do you direct this opinion/observation? but blind faith and slavish obedience could lead us all down a very rocky road? It can't be anyone on this site! The commitment is massive. 98% support for IA means we are awake! Who is blind and who is obedient in your opinion? ----------------KAWAK