wandle wrote:
So if someone has school-age children...
a) "I need to be on Earlys so I can pick my kids up from school"
b) "I need to be on Lates so I can take my kids to school"
c) "I need to be on Nights so I can take my kids to school and pick them up before I go to work"
All valid reasons, any one of which could be put forward by the SAME person...
Which would give him (or her) far more choices than people much higher up the seniority list
Your application must: give details of the flexible working pattern you are applying for, including the date from which you want it to start.
If you were to request a)b) and c) you would effectively be saying that you can work any of those shift patterns in which case you would not need FF.
Once a shift pattern is identified and offered that meets the working pattern that you have applied for the business has met it's obligation under the flexible working directive....if you turn it down another offer will not be made and it's 12 months before you can re-apply.
It's not a case of giving you choices,it's a case of identifying a working pattern that meets your Flexible Working Needs and you accepting it....because it meets your Flexible Working Needs.
what happens if your paired on park&loop with someone on family friendly, how will that work ? i'm on till 3pm family friendly till 1pm, his the driver on family friendly. not happend yet but will as we have been in with managment discussing the loops. any one with any idea?
I wasn't suggesting the same person would apply for earlies lates and nights simultaneously.
I was more suggesting that someone with low seniority could use ANY of the a) b) or c) arguments to get the exact shift they want, ahead of people directly above them on the seniority list who then have to pick from what's left. The more senior postie(s) - because of people getting FF hours - may then have fewer than 3 shift patterns to choose from.
Seniority may have it's flaws, but everyone understands the principle that, if you stay with RM, you eventually get senior enough to pick the shift of your choice. Allowing FF hours to over-ride seniority completely undermines that principle, and makes seniority about as much use as those ColleagueShare certificates
wandle wrote:
Seniority may have it's flaws, but everyone understands the principle that, if you stay with RM, you eventually get senior enough to pick the shift of your choice. Allowing FF hours to over-ride seniority completely undermines that principle, and makes seniority about as much use as those ColleagueShare certificates
The world has changed wandle..what can i say?
Even the union that once protected seniority and still believes in the principle recognises it's limitations and flaws.
Look at pay protection and MTSF2...how fair is that?
If someone has a genuine need to work a certain shift pattern and you just want to work a certain shift pattern...in a fair society who should get it?
It's just something you have to live with i'm afraid.
People take the piss with FF hours, It really gets on my tits. I work in a MC and most of the FF insist they need mornings or nights because of taking/picking kids up, then do overtime after mornings (mornings finish at 2pm so this is the time they should be picking the kids up ) or before the night shift, It makes a joke of a system that should be used to help out with family life, it should not be used to gain a financial advantage. Even worse is when vacant duties are not advertised and just given to people with FF, In my opinion this should not happen, If people have a FF accepted by RM then there current duty should be altered to suit the required FF hours they should not be given a duty ahead of other staff.
Why are management so weak with FF and why do the union support these people? It is like the union are putting the needs of 1 person above the needs of 200 other staff.
The FF in my office aren't allowed to work passed their contracted finishing time and to be fair none of them ask to.
I suppose it depends how much of a piss-take your members/reps/managers are.
If you let it happen sure as eggs is eggs...it'll happen.
incogneeeto wrote:Can I stop it? Shouldn't managers stop it?
If I can stop it is it the same for DDA?
We also have a member who has to work nights on medical grounds but works ot from 6 at night.
I know him - Mr Barney Owl!
At one time Royal Mail were touting the idea of getting "mothers" to deliver after dropping the kids off at school...............works great if its a 5hr a day contract, otherwise you'd be stuffed when you had to pick the kid up when they finished school, if you were a single "mum" what would you do with the kid on a Saturday?
Seniority still has its place, but as legislation and Royal Mail's own directives water it down, other factors will over-ride it!
Seniority should be scrapped. Managers should allocate the duties to suit the needs of business and try to stick to that plan, perhaps tweak it here and there. All overtime should be offered to Part-time guys first as they are cheaper, or allocate on needs of the business.
ad0128 wrote:Seniority should be scrapped. Managers should allocate the duties to suit the needs of business and try to stick to that plan, perhaps tweak it here and there. All overtime should be offered to Part-time guys first as they are cheaper, or allocate on needs of the business.
I'm guessing you have low seniority in your office, part-time too maybe?!
If we paid a decent wage for full timers there would be no need for overtime.
If full timers didnt do so much overtime partimers wouldnt be part time. As there would be enough work for them to be made up to full time. Which would be slightly cheaper than paying overtime. And ofcourse that goes back to the do your job properly arguments. If full timers did the job right there would be more work to go round. What a mess we have got our selves in
ad0128 wrote:Seniority should be scrapped. Managers should allocate the duties to suit the needs of business and try to stick to that plan, perhaps tweak it here and there. All overtime should be offered to Part-time guys first as they are cheaper, or allocate on needs of the business.
I'm guessing you have low seniority in your office, part-time too maybe?!
What is the post code for Nirvana DO.
TBH it would be a good idea if............. managers were fair in their allocation, and they realised that business needs are different to "just get it out of the door" approach.
Also seniority should play no part in allocation of overtime IMHO, a list should be made and as far as possible it should be shared around fairly to those who wish to do it.
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Also seniority should play no part in allocation of overtime IMHO, a list should be made and as far as possible it should be shared around fairly to those who wish to do it.
Making sure, of course, that some hourage is at times where only Reps who are on full-time release from their proper shift can actually cover it (see other thread)
) or before the night shift, It makes a joke of a system that should be used to help out with family life, it should not be used to gain a financial advantage. Even worse is when vacant duties are not advertised and just given to people with FF, In my opinion this should not happen, If people have a FF accepted by RM then there current duty should be altered to suit the required FF hours they should not be given a duty ahead of other staff.
