Have management changed in 10 years....

[Cut Off King]

things have changed, but most people were happier when we were a service to the public, not a leaflet delivery

[BELIAL]

It's a very good question. In my opinion we are not comparing like for like.

When the Lord Sawyer was asked to write his report and then oversea changes we had very bad industrial relations , when we had more industrial action ballots than all the rest of industry put together. On top of this we had loads of bouts of unofficial industrial action. The final straw came when Watford went out unofficially and work was diverted to Liverpool who walked out and then London who walked out including delivery offices. John Keggie the then DGSP got Royal Mail to agree an independent report. That report led to groups being sent up in each area with an independent chairs but very little changes and the sawyer groups broke down when Royal Mail announced the share offer.

Delivery Office managers were not as centralised as they are now and some were completely out of control and led to breakdowns in IR etc. However on the plus side some senior managers knew the business inside out and certainly would not have bought in such thinks as park and loop.

Back then we also still had 2 deliveries and the break between the first and second delivery allowed for union meetings to be held on a wider basis.

10 years on there is only a handful of senior managers who have operational experience and DSMs and DOM are told on daily and sometimes hourly conference calls what to do and rarely can they no ! In some cases the DOMs are bullied and given no choice some then because they are under pressure do the same to our members.

The introduction of Royal Mail sanctions for taking unofficial industrial action in 2003 has reduced the number of unofficial walk outs compared to what they were in 2000.

However has bullying increased or decreased since 2001. I would suggest that is has decreased especially after some of the high profile cases like the Birmingham suicide case. However clearly bullying by managers still continues.

The industry has change massively in the last 10 years , there was no DSA , there was 2 deliveries and the vast majority of delivery postmen and women were on a 6 day week earning £250 for a 41.5 hour week. Now look where we are , a lot has changed some for the good and some for the worse.

Did Sawyer really change anything ?

OH s**t ,on balance, we are well and truly f****d if this guy is representative of our union ,we need a new one

[Martin Walsh]

Belial that's a cheap shot. Tell me why you think that ? I have explained the basis of why I said what I did and I was around and active 10 years ago and am still active now.

If you disagree what is your rationale ? If your being bullied now then you will say it's worse and rightly so.

But 10 years ago there was no individual performance standards agreement and management used DPMS to target Indivduals which led to lots of disputes.

I am a rep and I do believe I listen to what's happening in the workplace as well as making. Sure I attend Offices to see first hand what's going on. It's easy for people to read horror stories off here and then to think that is happening everywhere but you have to have evidence. Equally there are still some offices throughout the country who would not accept Royal Mail behaving in the way they did over 10 years ago.

Again my opinion , if your is different well let's hear why , don't just slag me off.

[fishtank]

The problem with the Sawyer report was that it was balanced.

It tore into management but it also tore into CWU HQ,the union structure,the lack of accountability at Branch level and the disengagement between HQ and the ordinary member.
Neither RM or the CWU liked that very much and rather than face their own failings both parties decided it would be better to accept the others deficiencies and bury the report....so that's what happened.

The "Sawyer groups" were allowed to die without a fight from either side and a report which was probably the most damming independent report on management behaviour ever published was allowed to disappear almost without a trace and with it probably went our best chance of dealing with the failings in both organisations and our best chance to turn the company around.

[fishtank]

Dingo...you measure management behaviour in terms of disputes,you are i'm afraid to say lost in some sort of time-warp.
The days of heading to the gate over individual issues are,i'm sad to say...mostly gone.Most members who are subject to management bullying don't even bother to report it now...the usual excuse is it's not worth the grief As Unions have evolved into more...cooperative partnerships with management so Union membership has evolved towards simply an insurance policy...you can't really blame them for that when agreements are full of words like "journey" and partnerships".
There has been a downward trend in local and national disputes in every union over the last 10 years and it's not because managers are behaving themselves ...it's because members are far less militant than they were and have much more to lose....they are now scared and they feel isolated.

Imagine union members feeling scared and isolated....
As a fellow union member i feel embarrassed and humiliated by that.
If i was a National Officer i wouldn't show my face in public.

[dvbuk55]

I believe the standard of management has deteriorated in the last ten years. 10 years ago there was an older cadre of managers who had served their time so to speak and were much more in touch with the shop floor and were willing to negotiate. There has in the last few years been a wind change and younger people with little experience have rushed to become junior managers, who have been brainwashed into believing that anything is achievable and unleashed on the shop floor sans man-management skills.

I agree with fishtank about the relevance of the Sawyer report and the fact that it was largely ignored by both parties for expediencies sake. Perhaps the report should be re-visited and the salient points highlighted once again.

One thing that has changed in the last ten years is the apparent coalition between the union and RM, which the union seem to think is a natural progression and the membership feel is treachery.

[drb]

One thing that has changed in the last ten years is the apparent coalition between the union and RM, which the union seem to think is a natural progression and the membership feel is treachery.

[Martin Walsh]

Fishtank this so called partnership the CWU and Royal Mail have had in the last 10 years has not worked well considering we had a national ballot and a London Weighting ballot and the biggest unoffical dispute since the miners in 2003 we then were on the verge of a national dispute in 2005 which was averted by a last minute deal. We then had another dispute in 2007 and then we took more strike action in 2009 then all the other unions put together. Things are pretty tense again now so I am at a loss to see this new partnership actually working.

Of course any independent report will look at good and bad on all issues and identified that the concept that people did not work all the hours they were paid. The Sawyer groups lasted a time but the reality is that it became an industry for some like Margret Prosser who chaired a sawyer group then became a board member supposedly the trade union member on the board.

it got ditched by Keggie when Royal Mail decided to try and do the share offer.

Now I believe one of the reasons why there is not the level of disputes as there were is not necessary down to that members are no longer up for a fight as if the issue is important enough be that local or national then members will in some offices react. it's a common mistake that some believe all areas were stronger years ago , some areas have never been strong. Once of the things which changed the level of unofficial action was that Royal Mail started introducing what was known as the punishment charter. They would remove all local agreements , stop post persons from performing overtime for 28 days and withdraw facility time from reps for any office which took unofficial action. This did have an effect.

Now does bullying still occur of course it does and the CWU have recently been involved in the new ENOUGH campaign which will be rolled out in Royal Mail to stop bullying by managers and by colleagues on colleagues.

If you believe bullying is worse now that is your opinion but I would disagree.

[dvbuk55]

The BT 2010 agreement is a charter for management leaning on part timers to work excess hours above those contracted, it may not be overt bullying but there is the underlying threat that overtime won't be availalble unless it is worked to order. The threat of being followed, of being timed, of being moved off their delivery.

Who in their right mind ever thought there would be a new understanding, trust and full consultation after BT 2010, well nobody from the shop floor that's for sure.

[fishtank]

Once of the things which changed the level of unofficial action was that Royal Mail started introducing what was known as the punishment charter. They would remove all local agreements , stop post persons from performing overtime for 28 days and withdraw facility time from reps for any office which took unofficial action. This did have an effect.

You mean management scared members into not taking unofficial action by threatening to withdraw local agreements..they made them feel isolated by withdrawing union facility time.
They reduced the level of unofficial action over the last 10 years..by....bullying....members.

If you believe bullying is worse now that is your opinion but I would disagree.

You couldn't make it up.

[BELIAL]

Belial that's a cheap shot. Tell me why you think that ? I have explained the basis of why I said what I did and I was around and active 10 years ago and am still active now.

If you disagree what is your rationale ? If your being bullied now then you will say it's worse and rightly so.

But 10 years ago there was no individual performance standards agreement and management used DPMS to target Indivduals which led to lots of disputes.

I am a rep and I do believe I listen to what's happening in the workplace as well as making. Sure I attend Offices to see first hand what's going on. It's easy for people to read horror stories off here and then to think that is happening everywhere but you have to have evidence. Equally there are still some offices throughout the country who would not accept Royal Mail behaving in the way they did over 10 years ago.

Again my opinion , if your is different well let's hear why , don't just slag me off.

Quite right, I apologise unreservedly .

I'm afraid this line

However has bullying increased or decreased since 2001. I would suggest that is has decreased especially after some of the high profile cases like the Birmingham suicide case. However clearly bullying by managers still continues.

Was a bit of a' red rag' since in my personal experience the opposite is true. However I do accept this may not reflect the national trend .Please accept my apologies

[Big Daz]

Withdraw facility time

What facility time?

[gb93]

If you believe bullying is worse now that is your opinion but I would disagree.

You couldn't make it up.

Head in sand or totally out of touch ?
That statement to me outranks 'deal of the century' a million fold.

[dvbuk55]

Well I don't want to go into too much detail but a person approached me today who is on a part time 30 hour contract, which should be worked over 5 days but for the last several months has been working 6 days a week to cover the duty. Quite obviously this would entail quite a lot of overtime, not least of all going over time. Now there is an attempt to stop paying the level of overtime worked because of the cost, not because it isn't necessary but purely on cost. This member of staff is relatively new and is feeling stressed that their work rate is being questioned and that is a form of bullying.

Now is bullying on the increase - Yes and that after taking strike action because of it.

[wayoutman]

dingo, i have recently resigned due to a long standing issue of bullying from our DOM and one lino.

the management system in place within the DOs is there simply to divide and conquer the membership.

i have been about as millitant as possible over the past 18 months we have had this mad man in charge.

the membership are being led to believe on a regular basis that the company is skint and we have to make up the short fall

many members are scared of what awaits them with talk of privatasation, pension issues and an ever decreasing wage packet.

even the colleague share issue has left some out of pocket as they had spent the money before they got it.

i was lucky enough not to be financially reliant upon RM and for that reason i would ALWAYS stand my ground with any workplace bullies.

its very difficult to create any sort of unity within the DOs now as the people are being worried by RM tactics and the CWU does nothing to counteract it.

lets face it dingo, unions generally have lost ground in the last 10 years and that has to be the root problem