University Degrees

[bandit650]

Personally i think University Degrees are a waste, both of my children have degrees but cant get a job in their chosen careers, they are making staff redundant in both their chosen paths,the lucky thing is both have no debt we have it instead as it was cheaper for us to borrow the money and not them,both used university's at home and 1 had to do a year up in the smoke but commuted by train and we paid for that to,now they have started in low paid jobs to tied them over, they both add to the house so the loans are being paid off.I would not have begrudged them the time but like someone has said it's a business now it is not about gaining a degree to get on in life.

[dvbuk55]

Well I am currently working as a postie on a 3 month temp contract, while I finish my Phd in nuclear physics. I did my first degree in astrophysics through the OU and then got funding for my masters in photonics and also for PhD. Tough the funding ran out last October for my PhD, which is why I decided to get a part time job to support me while I wrote my thesis. Even tough there are jobs that I could apply for with better pay, I think I am going to stick being a postie for a while, simply because I enjoy the job, it beats sitting in front of a computer all day analyzing data, thats what I reckon anyway.

I decided to not tell the Royal mail about my qualifications when I applied, as I applied before and did not even get an interview, but when I did not mention my qualifications I got the job, anyway as I say I am really enjoying it

What exactly will you do when your thesis is finished? Will you be able to find employment in either disciplines or will you stay as a postman Who provided the funding by the way, why did it run out......................you weren't being feckless I hope. How long did the OU course last?

I do take your point about qualifications and job interviews. My son quickly discovered that you need to tailor your CV to whatever job you applied for in order to even get through the door.

[box_shana]

Well I am currently working as a postie on a 3 month temp contract, while I finish my Phd in nuclear physics. I did my first degree in astrophysics through the OU and then got funding for my masters in photonics and also for PhD. Tough the funding ran out last October for my PhD, which is why I decided to get a part time job to support me while I wrote my thesis. Even tough there are jobs that I could apply for with better pay, I think I am going to stick being a postie for a while, simply because I enjoy the job, it beats sitting in front of a computer all day analyzing data, thats what I reckon anyway.

I decided to not tell the Royal mail about my qualifications when I applied, as I applied before and did not even get an interview, but when I did not mention my qualifications I got the job, anyway as I say I am really enjoying it

What exactly will you do when your thesis is finished? Will you be able to find employment in either disciplines or will you stay as a postman Who provided the funding by the way, why did it run out......................you weren't being feckless I hope. How long did the OU course last?

I do take your point about qualifications and job interviews. My son quickly discovered that you need to tailor your CV to whatever job you applied for in order to even get through the door.

I will try and do a post doc job probably, tough I as I say I am thinking about staying as a postie for a while, its not as stressful in that I am not thinking 24hours a day, once my round is finished thats it I can relax for the rest of the day. My funding came from the Government, I had bad qualifications from secondary school and I decided at the age of 22 to do a OU degree, as the government helped to pay for the courses then if you had a low income, which i did as I only worked part time, it took 4 years to complete and I really enjoyed it, so much so I wanted to continue in the field I studied. Anyway I got a 2.1 and this opened the door for me to apply for studentships, where a research council pay for your course fees and living expenses. So for my masters I applied and was awarded a one year studentship from the EPSRC and for my PhD I was awarded a three year STFC studentship which ran out last October.

[dvbuk55]

I really enjoyed it, so much so I wanted to continue in the field I studied. Anyway I got a 2.1 and this opened the door for me to apply for studentships, where a research council pay for your course fees and living expenses. So for my masters I applied and was awarded a one year studentship from the EPSRC and for my PhD I was awarded a three year STFC studentship which ran out last October.

I presume then that to complete the course you need to write your thesis - so what's the holdup? I would have thought you would want to get it out of the way and put into practice what you have spent the last 8 years studying.

[pickaname]

I got a BA and MA and if im honest it pretty much was a waste of time and money in a vocational sense.
However, there were other benefits to studying at a higher level. It requires a different type of discipline and hard work, skills you cant really get anywhere else except at university.

It annoys me when people poo poo so called soft degrees such as art and music. Narrow minded twats often think that medicine and science etc are the only useful subjects as they are too thick skulled to undertand that all areas of academic study are interlinked and wouldnt exist without the other (surfing studies at falmouth college aside) -

Who is too say that literature is a more important cultural artefact than films or video games (apart from Daily Mail readers)?

[MinisterofCucumber]

Doing an undergraduate degree can be good training for the brain like circuit training, if properly designed, can be good training for the muscles.

The main purpose of degree courses is to equip the graduate with the skills to work independently and solve problems through being able to understand and communicate things better than before going to university. If you come out of education with these skills then, regardless of what institution you went to or what mark you got, you have got something out of it.

The fact is that almost only graduates of Russell Group universities get the opportunity to be interviewed for the top salaried jobs, regardless of whether they have been properly educated. If you really want a proper education, you will study a subject with complex concepts and make sure that you are assessed as independently as possible, ideally by exams marked by strangers. If you want swift access to a well paid job, you will go to a Russell Group university and study a simple subject that is assessed by coursework.

Is education solely about getting access to a better paid job?

No.

Should everyone have an equal opportunity to be educated?

Yes.

Does the institution you graduate from affect your employment chances?

Yes.

Should an individual have to pay as much for education from a non Russell Group university as a Russell Group one?

No, not if the argument for charging is based on improved earning capacity.

We need to find a way that employers can be given a free measure of someone's aptitude that is fairer than the current measure, status of institution.

[dvbuk55]

I got a BA and MA and if im honest it pretty much was a waste of time and money in a vocational sense.
However, there were other benefits to studying at a higher level. It requires a different type of discipline and hard work, skills you cant really get anywhere else except at university.It annoys me when people poo poo so called soft degrees such as art and music. Narrow minded twats often think that medicine and science etc are the only useful subjects as they are too thick skulled to undertand that all areas of academic study are interlinked and wouldnt exist without the other (surfing studies at falmouth college aside) -

Who is too say that literature is a more important cultural artefact than films or video games (apart from Daily Mail readers)?

Wonder how the millions without a degree manage to get through their working life, which requires discipline and hard work to maintain it through 50 years not 3. I must be too thick skulled to see the relevance of daubing paint on canvas to brain surgery, although I can see it being relevant to surfing studies at Falmouth, both in my opinion, falling into the same category.

[pickaname]

I got a BA and MA and if im honest it pretty much was a waste of time and money in a vocational sense.
However, there were other benefits to studying at a higher level. It requires a different type of discipline and hard work, skills you cant really get anywhere else except at university.It annoys me when people poo poo so called soft degrees such as art and music. Narrow minded twats often think that medicine and science etc are the only useful subjects as they are too thick skulled to undertand that all areas of academic study are interlinked and wouldnt exist without the other (surfing studies at falmouth college aside) -

Who is too say that literature is a more important cultural artefact than films or video games (apart from Daily Mail readers)?

Wonder how the millions without a degree manage to get through their working life, which requires discipline and hard work to maintain it through 50 years not 3. I must be too thick skulled to see the relevance of daubing paint on canvas to brain surgery, although I can see it being relevant to surfing studies at Falmouth, both in my opinion, falling into the same category.

I doubt you can do a degree in brain surgery

[blaze3]

I think being a postie is a nice easy number to do while studying at uni.
Once you get the degree you want you can move on to a proper job with real money.

[taurus88]

Iam quite surprised how dismissive people on here are about degrees. Sure there are a few dodgy ones out there such as 'surf science' but most are in depth courses with real career prospects! I am heading to uni in September and personally I would rather aspire to a better life/career and fail then to be a postman all my life!!!

It's not about being dismissive, rather it's about being realistic. Realism is an acquired taste, acquired through years of pain and toil on the wrong side of the fence. But like a lot of qualities in life that are acquired rather than taught, it is not deserving of scorn. I spent a time at university - it wasn't for me. I realised that the dream of university that I had been sold was fundamentally different to the reality I was provided with. At first I had regrets, but as I see my friends return from university without much to offer anybody, back to living at home, begging for money either from the government or their parents, I'm not entirely convinced. And many of these individuals attended reputable universities (York, Sheffield, Nottingham, Durham) studying worthwhile courses. Reality is it's not a piece of piss getting a job any more - for anybody. Having a qualification among a social group full of qualifications equates to only one thing ... lots of competition.

Good luck and enjoy your time at university, irrespective. I do agree with one thing - a university education is not merely about enhancing your prospects. But universities themselves have gone away more and more from the 'experience' of an education, concerning themselves with revenue streams. You will become a number, to them you will be a source of income, and seeing as you're going into that environment, is it really unreasonable to judge the merits of it mostly on the basis of your ultimate future prospects - because the rest of your life will depend upon those much more than it will depend upon how cultured an individual you are, how drunk you got every weekend, and how involved you were in clubs and societies. There is a lot to be said for a university education ... but there is a lot not to be said about it as well - and those bits are what teachers, career advisors, etc., unfortunately omit from their pep talks.

These guys are there to help universities make money. They will wheedle bull-sh*t and b*llocks like there's no tomorrow. Hear it from me. If you're under the age of 30, your future prospects are bleak, no matter how educated or uneducated you are. That's the future that has been given to you. You may as well go to university and get in loads of debt for all the difference it's going to make - you'll probably never pay it back anyway. But ... think about what you're doing anyway. Don't just do for the sake of doing. Don't do it because somebody told you to. That's what I did. I appreciate that I'm not a major success story, but I'm still young, intelligent and ambitious. I don't view my future success as being dependent on any factor other than myself. If it happens that I become a very unsuccessful and pitiable individual, then that's just life. Those are the things that life throws at you. I can deal with that because I made choices I am happy with - and I say that even in full appreciation that certain of those choices were bad ones!

[pickaname]

Not everyone can be successful.

Youre told the opposite of this all your life - work hard and you'll do well.

Well if everyone worked hard and did well who would collect the garbage, empty the dog s**t bins or deliver the mail in torrential rain?

Britain is a country of lies and liars im afraid and the majority of people will live boring, mundane and uninspired lives.

Probably you.

[dvbuk55]

At 18 there shouldn't be a choice after college, it would be straight in to boot camp for 2 years national service. Now there is an experience that would be unparalleled in instilling discipline and imparting skills.

[dvbuk55]

Not everyone can be successful.

Youre told the opposite of this all your life - work hard and you'll do well.

Well if everyone worked hard and did well who would collect the garbage, empty the dog s**t bins or deliver the mail in torrential rain?Britain is a country of lies and liars im afraid and the majority of people will live boring, mundane and uninspired lives.

Probably you.

Probably the bloke with a couple of degrees who can't find a suitable outlet for his acquired skills

[fishtank]

At 18 there shouldn't be a choice after college, it would be straight in to boot camp for 2 years national service. Now there is an experience that would be unparalelled in instilling discipline and imparting skills.

And who's going to pay for that?
The Services no longer have the infrastructure to deal with the tiny army we now have never mind a couple of hundred thousand acne covered hormonal teenagers...and where would you send the equally troublesome girls?
There's no mills left dv.

[fishtank]

If employers want "better educated" staff with degrees why don't we raise the revenue for further education through the corporation tax system.
Surely they are the end beneficiaries of higher education,wouldn't it serve them better to invest in the future rather than watch the education system produce nothing but demotivated,debt-ridden underachievers.