How to report sick

[MinisterofCucumber]

Whether we like it or not, our line managers have power over us and it is difficult for a lot of us to say no to them. It is particularly difficult for those of us who have been trusting enough to share personal information with managers and stupid enough to go drinking with managers.

One of the most useful things an RMG worker can have is the email address of their line manager. It is usually the firstname dot surname at royalmail dot com

e.g. john.dailymailmouth@royalmail.com

RMG are paying ATOS to cut sickness costs by mainly trying to get sick people back to work asap. Your manager needs your consent before you can be referred to ATOS. They need to have proof of these 3 things:

1. They need proof you have given permission for your personal information to be sent to ATOS.

2. They need proof that you and your manager are both aware of the reason for the referral.

3. They need proof that you have given explicit permission for ATOS to send a report to your manager, using information from medical records held by management.

This proof can be achieved if your manager can persuade you to sign a standard form that they send you. They put pressure on you to sign this form by phoning you up and, in some cases, visiting your home. You can avoid this harassment by following these steps:

In the case of genuine illness,

1. Get someone else to phone in sick for you.

2. Follow this up with an email to your manager:

"Dear Manager,

I regret I will not be coming to work today because I feel ill. I think I will be off for the next few days/until the end of the week. I would be very grateful if you would respect my privacy by not phoning me or visiting my home. If it is necessary for you to contact me, please email me. I will email you to inform you of my progress.

Kind regards,

Postie."

3. If your illness lasts longer than 7 calendar days, you will need a fit note from your GP. The doctor's fit note looks like this:

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/med3-fitnote-sample.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Keep a photocopy of your fit note.

4. If your doctor has signed you off as not fit for work, there is no reason on earth why you should agree to be referred to ATOS.

5. If your doctor advises you may be fit for work, make sure he/she puts down as much advice as possible on what you could do and what changes you will need to return to work. Remember, there has to be a reason to refer you to ATOS. If there is enough information on the fit note, you may be able to avoid a referral.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/ ... /DG_187161" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[arnold cheshire]

our dom says you personally must phone in no text messages or emails

[hantsman]

our dom says you personally must phone in no text messages or emails

In fairness to RM ( yes they are not fair normally)

I agree,

You have to ring in yourself (normally) as is the case with most employers!

[TrueBlueTerrier]

our dom says you personally must phone in no text messages or emails

In fairness to RM ( yes they are not fair normally)

I agree,

You have to ring in yourself (normally) as is the case with most employers!

I suppose its all down to the manager - we had one guy that had to text in - he had Laryngitis and lived alone. Neighbour/friend would not be best please if he had knocked on door at 5am to help him ring in sick.

[brothermagrew]

Excellent post Minister.

Although on the other side of the coin and from a purely impartial point of view or assuming the role of the devil's advocate (like others before me), managers often fear that contact with someone who is off sick will be seen as harassment but lack of contact or involvement from them can actually make an employee feel less able to return. Early, regular and sensitive contact with employees during sickness absences can therefore be a key factor in enabling an early return and this view is endorsed by companies that have pioneered active absence management.

Employees should be informed that they too have a responsibility to keep in contact. If your company does have access to occupational health support, it is important that you co-ordinate approaches to the individual. This helps to ensure clarity about professional roles and about what personal support is offered. While the employee might not wish to be ‘out of sight, out of mind’, too much uncoordinated contact from different people can be overwhelming.

If an employee rings in sick, you should, as their line manager, take the call personally. The best outcome from this initial call is to agree that the employee will make a follow-up contact. (It might be useful to agree with the employee how this will be made. They might prefer to do it by text or e-mail.) If the employee does not make contact in the agreed way, you should still get in touch. At an early stage, the fact of being in contact may be more important than what is actually said.

Sometimes employees do not want to be contacted. Management more likely than not will not accept this at face value and sever all contact with the employee – all the evidence shows clearly that this hinders the person’s recovery and greatly reduces the chances of a successful return to work. People may request no contact because they feel anxious, embarrassed or ashamed about the way that they feel and are behaving – a sympathetic manner, being sensitive and treating the person normally can help to overcome that.

Sometimes the request for no contact arises because the local workplace manager is perceived to have been a factor in the employee becoming unwell. In such circumstances, options would include offering the services of another manager and/or making use of an intermediary such as a colleague, family member or trade union official. If there are work issues (real or perceived) it is essential that these are addressed or it will be unlikely the person will return to work.

It should be remembered however that there are mutual rights and responsibilities in managing sickness absence and rehabilitation. If management have made all reasonable efforts to communicate with an employee and they refuse to remain in contact with them then management cannot be expected to anticipate what reasonable adjustments might help the individual to return to work.

Although it can feel difficult, it is advisable to keep in touch with your employer. This is partly so that practical issues around sick leave can be resolved and you can clear up any worries you have that relate to the job. However it’s also important for emotional and social reasons. It’s easy to feel cut off and isolated and to lose confidence. And, the longer you are away, the more difficult it can be to cross the threshold when you do return.

Question being does Royal Mail advocate home visits to their employees who for whatever reason are off work with a bout of sickness absence, and if so, in which of their policy documents does it spell this out in black and white.

[CharlesSpooner]

Personally I don't want anyone ringing me up when I'm not well. If I'm laid up in bed I wanna curl up and feel sorry for myself - not be up and down answering the bloody phone And as far as companies "pioneering active absence management" goes - isn't there a chance that some of these companies are merely good at bullying unfit employees back into work?

On a more serious note though there is certainly a need for regular contact during more serious, long-term absences and although we generally only hear the horror stories I'd say that overall RM are a hell of a lot better regarding this than a lot of employers out there.

[Indy]

our dom says you personally must phone in no text messages or emails

Same here... anything else is unauthorised absence without pay PERIOD!

Also I want to say in fairness to RM that there ARE people and we all know of instances of this where people phone in sick when there not. I think it perfectly fair that RM does everything they reasonably can to root out this abuse. Unfortunately this normally impacts on the honest.

[fishtank]

our dom says you personally must phone in no text messages or emails

Same here... anything else is unauthorised absence without pay PERIOD!

The actual "official" though unagreed position is....

: No text messages or reporting via a third party will be accepted, unless in extreme cases i.e. when it is unavoidable to do otherwise.

[Indy]

our dom says you personally must phone in no text messages or emails

Same here... anything else is unauthorised absence without pay PERIOD!

The actual "official" though unagreed position is....

: No text messages or reporting via a third party will be accepted, unless in extreme cases i.e. when it is unavoidable to do otherwise.

I would have thought that would have been obvious to RM and was there to comply with the law. If you'd be run down and were in intensive care then it would hardly be reasonable to personally call in sick!

[brothermagrew]

Fishtank would Royal Mail's penchant for home visits to employees who are off work with sickness absence therefore be construed as being "official" but unagreed also?

I refer you to http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... =1&t=38200" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Paragraph 9.

[fishtank]

Fishtank would Royal Mail's penchant for home visits to employees who are off work with sickness absence therefore be construed as being "official" but unagreed also?

I refer you to http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... =1&t=38200" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Paragraph 9.

I did notice in that particular case both sides maintained that the home visit was mutually agreed.
In 2004 RM brought in a raft of unagreed managerial guidelines regarding their infamous sick absence contact strategy.
The union has to date refused to recognise most of them including home visits.
As the attendance procedure is being renegotiated as we speak perhaps that will change.

[NumptyBumpty]

Totally agree with brothermacgrew, I'd strongly advise against MinisterofCucumber advice.

It is reasonable for an employer to expect regular contact when an employee is sick. Obviously if your manager is one of the causes of the illness then it can be difficult, but you can always arrange to contact another agreed person within the business in this situation. As much as we all hate to be subserviant, it is really important to follow the agreed procedures and be as compliant as possible. If you refuse reasonable requests then you wouldn't stand a chance when it comes to appeals and tribunals, as you would be deemed as uncooperative and unwilling to return to work. You increase the chance of warnings being issued and your pay being reduced to statutory sick pay.

Keep calm, be the bigger man and just play by the rules. It'll make life easier in the long run.

[brothermagrew]

Fishtank would Royal Mail's penchant for home visits to employees who are off work with sickness absence therefore be construed as being "official" but unagreed also?

I refer you to http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... =1&t=38200" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Paragraph 9.

I did notice in that particular case both sides maintained that the home visit was mutually agreed.
In 2004 RM brought in a raft of unagreed managerial guidelines regarding their infamous sick absence contact strategy.
The union has to date refused to recognise most of them including home visits.
As the attendance procedure is being renegotiated as we speak perhaps that will change.

Cheers brother Fishtank however, it was this line that got my attention in Paragraph 9 - Mr XXXX unchallenged evidence was that this was a normal visit under the sick absence procedures; and as you have intimated, sure i have also read in a previous LTB that the attendance procedure is indeed being renegotiated.

[MinisterofCucumber]

Let me make myself clear. Nowhere in my original post did I advocate breaking off contact with the line manager. I am recommending contact with the line manager be done in writing via email. I would advise a weekly email to the line manager to update them on your progress.

I believe that the purpose of a lot of the intrusive phone calls and visits by management is to pressurise people to agree to be referred to ATOS when it isn't necessary. My strategy protects the sick from this sort of harassment. If the fit note has enough information, the recovering person can negotiate their return to work with their line manager via email. They could post this email negotiation on this site anonymously and we could all help to make sure they don't get stitched up. A lot of people are complaining that they are not getting help from the Union so let's help them.

For offices where management threaten to stop pay if a sick person does not personally make the initial phone call, this threat needs to be challenged. If the local union is weak, you must go it alone and raise a grievance if your pay is stopped. Once a few people start to stick up for themselves and each other, you can start getting organised. If your local union won't help you, there are plenty of us on here who will.

[brothermagrew]

The sooner the better this attendance procedure renegotiation is formally agreed the better me thinks for all parties concerned, and for clarity sake lets hope there is a chapter or at least paragraph or two covering sick absence contact namely what is acceptable between Royal Mail/CWU and what is not.