Bizzarre Repick

[Dorset Plodder]

I expect the CWU to at least be on the ball enough to allow the members to vote on the revision.

Fact is the revision has taken 2 years and it was coming in with or without members ratification. FACT.

Office moaner no. Worried about the way the union is being pressured by management to make savings yes.

Thing is pickaname it appears that the Revision isn't being brought into all Offices. We've had ours "Suspended" why do you reckon it's being pushed through some areas and not others?

[maisymoo04]

we did vote nationaly and it was a YES vote(not including the 55000 who could,nt be arsed to vote)

[Martin Walsh]

Stop playing the blame game Pickaname !! The CWU can be blamed for many things but not what is happening in your office.

The blame lays squarly first and foremost on your local rep who should know he only holds that postion because he/she reperesents the members within the office. If he /she is not doing this and by not giving you a vote then this is so , then contact the Branch and demand a vote , if you dont get any help then contact CWU HQs.

The way the union structure is organised is that a Branch which is based on the postcode gets a rebate of money on the amount of members to organise in that postcode area. Some branch"s organise better than others. The reason why the union organises this way is that there are 1500 delivery offices , 70 mail centres , over 10 RDCs , a number of VOCs , Post offices , Motor transports workshops , Cash in transit centres and a number of mail operations in airports. It would be impossible for CWU HQs to oversea that amount of offices without the Regional, Divisonal, Branch , area rep and local rep organisation and of course the members.

Why is your office allowing this " rogue rep " to do this. Tell me what you or the members have done to argue that he should not be agreeing to anything unless the members in the office has voted for the revison. Why come on here and moan and blame CWU HQs when you have done nothing to stop this happening.

Once thing I have learnt in my 26 years in Royal Mail if you are an office which rolls over and allows Royal Mail to do what they want with the full kdnowledge that the members in that office will not do anything to stop it then Royal Mail will see your office as easy pickings. Royal Mail will not award you they will constainly attack you. Get off your knees and stop blaming everyone else and demand a vote and if the rep refuses then demand that the branch withdraws the credentials of the local rep and that you want a vote on the agreement. Mst improtantly get a petition up saying you have not agreed to the revison.

The CWU does not start and end at 150 the Broardway , if you thought that then this is why you have strong and weak offices in every branch , you have to stand your corner in your office and fight for the best possible terms and conditions and this means you dont agree to any revison unless the deal is acceptable to the members in the office.

[pop it in pete]

"Rep wouldnt allow us to vote yes or no."

This is pathetic! The workforce must have the final say, Dingo is right. Problem could be no one else wants to stand against the rep? However at least one person should flag this up via branch, divison or even HQ to let them know what RM are trying to get away with.

[fishtank]

The CWU can be blamed for many things but not what is happening in your office.

The blame lays squarly first and foremost on your local rep

Who is a CWU rep dingo,no doubt wears a CWU badge.
He should be accountable to his members and the Union.
Does anyone keep their eye on what Local Reps are up to?
Does anyone keep their eye on what Area Reps are up to?
Does anyone keep their eye on what Branches are up to?
Surely it's somebody's responsibility other than the member who is paying his money but getting shafted.
I love this Organisation...the good stuff is "look what your union has done for you".
The bad stuff is all your own fault.

[dvbuk55]

The CWU can be blamed for many things but not what is happening in your office.

The blame lays squarly first and foremost on your local rep

Who is a CWU rep dingo,no doubt wears a CWU badge.
He should be accountable to his members and the Union.
Does anyone keep their eye on what Local Reps are up to?
Does anyone keep their eye on what Area Reps are up to?
Does anyone keep their eye on what Branches are up to?
Surely it's somebody's responsibility other than the member who is paying his money but getting shafted.
I love this Organisation...the good stuff is "look what your union has done for you".
The bad stuff is all your own fault.

And would we be in this position if it hadn't been for 150 The Broadway - who negotiated the deal, then force fed it to the troops and then left it to local negotiation, with areas without even the basic representation at local level - yes of course it is our fault

[fishtank]

And would we be in this position if it hadn't been for 150 The Broadway - who negotiated the deal, then force fed it to the troops and then left it to local negotiation, with areas without even the basic representation at local level - yes of course it is our fault

Maybe we should offer a refund to those who don't feel they are getting "value for money"...after all these members have full-time jobs not full-time release but somehow they are expected to fill the role of union organiser,negotiator,communicator with branch and HQ....all because their Local Rep is too lazy...and there is absolutely no accountability from top to bottom in the CWU.

[maisymoo04]

there will be a lot of dosh handed back fish.

[dvbuk55]

And would we be in this position if it hadn't been for 150 The Broadway - who negotiated the deal, then force fed it to the troops and then left it to local negotiation, with areas without even the basic representation at local level - yes of course it is our fault

Maybe we should offer a refund to those who don't feel they are getting "value for money"...after all these members have full-time jobs not full-time release but somehow they are expected to fill the role of union organiser,negotiator,communicator with branch and HQ....all because their Local Rep is too lazy...and there is absolutely no accountability from top to bottom in the CWU.

What popped into my mind ft, was seeing a Bill and Dave tribute band busking round Waterloo making up the shortfall created by the 88.6% refund - which is supposedly the proportion of members who aren't quite satisfied with the unions agenda. Now who would they have as the backing group? There are quite a number of candidates don't you think?

[Martin Walsh]

Sorry Fishtank your missing the point. The question I asked Packaname was what has he done to make other people aware of the situration.

The posters on this board are anonymous so we take what people say on trust. I would like to think someone like this would not happen in too many places but I have no idea and neither do you on how widespread such behaviour is.

The rep is elected by the membership of his/her office , he is a volunteer of a voluntary organisation which happens to be the CWU. The area rep and Branch secretary along with divisonal reps are also only volunteers.

The common theme is that all paid release officials are somehow the enemy and its all their fault for every thing. Well if you have not held a postion like this then you wont know how many good things they do for the benefit of the members. Things like saving someones jobs , reprsenting them at an appeal , helping them at tribunal , sorting a pension out , helping them with an accident at work claim , a grienvence , a bully and harrassment claim , a personal case or a hardship , a dog bite , an ftc sorting out his contract , or when you assit a local rep and get the right deal for his/her members. This is the role of a full time official . The reason why they are on full time release is because the union has forced Royal Mail to do this. If everyone was to go back to work who is going to reprsent the person who has just been sacked or the person who faces the sack or is being bullied or has a grievence or assit the office getting the right agreement on anything that office needs.

Now I accept that in a voluntary organisation there will be good reps and bad reps , good branch"s and bad branch"s . I have no time and do not support members not getting good reprsenation. Whether you believe it or not I care passionately about the members I reprsent whether I know them or not and whether they are full time , part time or fixed term contracts.

However if the rep is not doing the right thing by the members , then someone should alert the branch and if the branch dose nothing compain to headquarters. Remember Royal Mail has more offices from one company than any other organisation in the UK. It is imposbile for CWU HQs to know what is happening every week in all 1500 offices.

I personally believe in an audit of offices and branch"s but until that is done then if the rep is not doing the job which the role dictates ie representaive of the members than someone should flag it up. Especially if they have time to write about it on here.

[fishtank]

I personally believe in an audit of offices and branch"s but until that is done then if the rep is not doing the job which the role dictates ie representaive of the members than someone should flag it up. Especially if they have time to write about it on here.

That's my point dingo...someone should flag it up...someone,anyone?
Is that the best we can do as far as accountability is concerned?
Don't Area Reps visit units any more?...talk to members...that kind of thing...
I would suggest in some areas they need to get out more.
We have a structure in place that should mean there is no need to flag it up to your Area Rep,he/she should be able to speak to the members on a reasonably regular basis anyway and find out first hand any problems that may have arisen...in some areas that clearly isn't happening.
I know of one office at least that has seen their Area Rep twice since 2009...once to sell the agreement and once to sell the revision.
That obviously isn't nearly good enough but again...no accountability.

[pickaname]

Thing is Dingo, our rep is first class.

He gets little or no support from the branch for political reasons. The branch secretary doesnt even work for Royal Mail for gods sake.

I get the impression hes tried to get the best possible revision but even he admits theres no chance if it working so its best just to let it come in and allow it to go tits up.

Afterall what do we care? Its Royal Mails fault if it fails as its their idea. Doesnt really make any difference to me or any others at my office as we only have to work our paid hours. When it comes in next month if we cant complete we will cut off. Thats that.

CWU hq needs to wake up and realise that there is a nonsense in having over arching national agreements and then expecting isolated reps to implement them on a local scale. When it goes tits up the members get the blame for not standing up for themselves.
Well let me tell you that our office rejected BT2010 so its pretty difficult pill to swallow when hq tell us we need to stand up for a crap agreement that only a bunch of insane out of touch lunatics would have 'negotiated'.

Nothing more to say on this issue.

[Martin Walsh]

Packaname I would not care if he was SWP or workers revolutionary or even members first , the fact he is a rep means that his duty is to get a deal which he thinks will work and then he should put that agreement to the members. If he does not think the revison would work then he should come to you the members for support.

You might think he is good and he might well be doing a good job. However he is wrong in not putting the revison to you the members that is unacceptable. It is a poor excuse to say management will just bring it in anyway. To my knowledge there has not been one example of executive action based on a revison. Equally there has not been one request from an office based on executive action of a revison.

Now fishtank yes area reps do visit offices , of course some area reps cover a huge geographical area. North Lancs is such a case. However even if they cannot visit all the offices in one week and I know plenty of area reps who do visit their offices every week then they should have conference calls and regular phone conversations and reps meetings.

Now in this case it would seem that the rep and the area rep does not get on. However I know plenty of examples of where the area rep and local rep dont see eye to eye but still ensure that the members come first and get the right reprsentation. In my view egos should not get in the way of reprsenting the members. Now packaname I think I know the Branch you are in and yes the Branch Secretary may not be employed by Royal Mail but she still can help you and ensure you get the right reprsentation.

Now I and quite a few others opposed the way forward and Performance Bonus scheme and the interim delivery agreement back in 2000. All of these agreements which were part of a fit to deliver revison were all based on local agreement. The difference being is that no London office introduced a revison because we opposed what the revison was based on. The difference here it would seem s that offices who opposed the deal seem willing to accept a revison which they know wont work. How does that help ?

Remember you may not like the agreement but you should fight to ensure that the deal which your revison gets is the best you can get and is based on the benefits your members want and is then voted on by your members.

Fishtank I would love to have a debate with you on building a stronger organsisation , but in my view you can change any organisation to a structure which you think is better and it will still fail if the reps in postion at all levels do not do their jobs.Sadly some dont but I still think the vast majority do the best they can in an often thankless and challenging enviorment.