Petition against Hayes/Ward

[tetley smooth]

Is it real bullying that is happening in the business? Or is it desperate managers, poorly trained in people skills, budget management etc and in fear of their own jobs. I think that the truth needs to be told by the bottom line ML4 and Doms that the new delivery methods are not working to their Soms and regional directors. It seems that the ML4 etc are bullshitting the Dom who in turn are bullshitting the Soms and so on. To say everything is great and working fine at our arse end of the job will eventually see it implode.

[motherhubbard]

As for the need to tell the members the truth about the financial position....i think they got that message a long time ago but they have sacrificed enough to prop up the company in the last 5 years so i'm afraid that particular cupboard is bare.

I totally agree with the Fishtank there.
And Moya's bonus and the DOm's bonus .....it's like having your nose rubbed in the s**t.

[dvbuk55]

Whatever happened to the line drawn in the sand?

The new understanding, total involvement and trust, time will tell..............well it's told..........it's the same old same old. It's a pity we don't all see the big picture..............maybe because meetings are held and information not forthcoming.

Area union involvement is sporadic at best and who is to blame - the CWU should police their national officers more closely.

How much support would area, divisional and branch get if the CWU held a national consultation of members and put right where the members feel they are failing. One immediate area necessary is to re-unite the union which is becoming more and more fragmented and actually have a national policy which is policed rigorously and not, as recent events indicate, where one area is treated differently to others, and that on a national platform!

[POSTMAN]

We then carried a policy which says until they are made up then there will be no further revisons. Now like I said before that is what a trade union should be about , protecting those who want a job.

I totally agree with you.
The question is...why isn't it a national policy?
The answer is..the union is split,pulling in different directions with differing agendas.
It was you that brought up the issue of facing change and even you will admit London has so far faced the least,believe it or not i don't blame London for that but you have to understand that other areas are facing a far different situation.
Units like mine need national clarity because we cannot rely on strong area and divisional support,why that is would be an entirely separate thread which i really don't want to get into in public....
Unfortunately all we see at national level is dithering or complete silence.
As for the need to tell the members the truth about the financial position....i think they got that message a long time ago but they have sacrificed enough to prop up the company in the last 5 years so i'm afraid that particular cupboard is bare.

To be fair Dingo,the temp thing is a national thing,so why hasn't all activity been stopped nationwide.Why is it us 'again'?
In fact why didn't it all stop the sec they moved to goalposts,this is wrong mate.

[MinisterofCucumber]

The aim of bullying is to break the victim's resistance so that he/she will do what they are told. The method is to make the victim feel afraid. It seems bullying is rife in RM, either directly administered by managers who are confident nobody will stand up to them or indirectly by workers who receive benefits from helping the managers.

I work in an indoor unit and I have seen how bullying has been the result of the management's policy to use favouritism to win the hearts and minds of enough workers to be able to control the rest and use this advantage to cut costs.

Management offer some workers in a unit the chance to join their 'private' club and it has a lot more material benefits than Fishtank's club. If you are a member of this 'private' club you get access to more than your fair share of overtime, cushy duties, annual leave when you want it and opportunities for promotion.

The classic way to cut costs is for units to be understaffed and for a lot of the regular work to be done on overtime. The problem comes when there aren't enough volunteers to do overtime. Bullying occurs when management, favourites and rogue reps cajole duty holders, normally younger and fitter men, into covering other duties. Being understaffed is in the interest of overtime guzzlers because they don't want the unit to be fully staffed. If anyone comes along and threatens a set up where the 'private' club members are getting more than their fair share, they are likely to be bullied.

There are many units where the Union is broken. Management have won the hearts and minds of the workers and encourage members to see their union rep as someone who they pay to provide a service.

The Union can only win back the hearts and minds of its members if it negotiates national policies on the issues where favouritism occurs.

[Martin Walsh]

Fish and Postman the reason I guess it is not national policy is that the numbers of FTCs are different across the UK. The reason it is so large in London there are now over 100 full time FTCs who have done more than two years and about 60 part time is due to the mail centre clousre programme. Royal Mail had used FTCs in London so they could turn them off in order to find easy postions for people who work in the Mount , East and South London mail centres.

Now the joint statement which Ray Ellis got with Royal Mail resolved only a few in London but did resolve plenty in other parts of the UK. For example the North West of London comes under Royal Mail"s Thames Valley region and they have only got 5 FTCs in the whole of the postcode.

Now I have to say they have been no real fuss on the issues of FTCs from outside London and thats why we have protected the FTCs in London by carrying the policy. Remember most of those FTCs in London who have served past two years stood on the picket line with us during the summer of 2009 when they had just started in the job. I think they deserve our support in getting a job and under MTSF they should be made up. Now Postman you say why is it always us , well at times if we did nothing then at times i do believe no one esle would and thats not a boast or being big headed but it is just based our experiences. People can find plenty of excuses to not do something but the policy which we have carried is working as we have agreed a way forward with the London Directors which will allow for the FTCs to be made up. We are hoping to be able to conclude this by mid september. Just go to show you that if everyone stands firm on a policy you can force Royal Mail to move their postion and in this case without strike action.

Now Dvbuk you keep saying that London gets favours from CWU HQs which others do not get. This is complete rubbish , the union protects workers in any dispute be that Burslem , the North West Mail Centre dispute or in the case o the interim agreement which you refer to all those offices who had executive action in 2009 and decided to take local strike action whether that was in Scotland , Network , Plymouth , Essex , Bristol or London. If your refering tothe London Mail Centre dispute well it had little to do with CWU HQs our reps got the yes vote in all the sites , we put the emergency motion at Conference which got unamiously supported and then as a result of it we had a set of talks with national leadership from both the CWU and Royal Mail and we got a joint statement. Now if you think your being treated differently then get the members in your office to vote yes in a strike and then you or any other office will get the same treatment.

I really do sometimes wonder why some on here can be so arguementive and passionate about what Royal Mail are doing to them in their offices but never seem to go back to their office and demand a ballot for strike action be that over bullying or anything else. Yet if another part of the country do just that then they moan that they are getting treated better.

[dvbuk55]

Now Dvbuk you keep saying that London gets favours from CWU HQs which others do not get. This is complete rubbish , the union protects workers in any dispute be that Burslem , the North West Mail Centre dispute or in the case o the interim agreement which you refer to all those offices who had executive action in 2009 and decided to take local strike action whether that was in Scotland , Network , Plymouth , Essex , Bristol or London. If your refering tothe London Mail Centre dispute well it had little to do with CWU HQs our reps got the yes vote in all the sites , we put the emergency motion at Conference which got unamiously supported and then as a result of it we had a set of talks with national leadership from both the CWU and Royal Mail and we got a joint statement. Now if you think your being treated differently then get the members in your office to vote yes in a strike and then you or any other office will get the same treatment.

I really do sometimes wonder why some on here can be so arguementive and passionate about what Royal Mail are doing to them in their offices but never seem to go back to their office and demand a ballot for strike action be that over bullying or anything else. Yet if another part of the country do just that then they moan that they are getting treated better.

Well dingo, the reason why units like mine wouldn't got for a ballot is part time staff - 50% now and more than half of those not unionised. You obviously have very limited experience in how a unit staffed by part timers runs. Part timers are held in thrall by the hinted FTC and the overtime necessary to have any standard of living. People who couldn't survive on the part time hours certainly wouldn't strike and get even less for a day here and a day there. Leaving allowances aside, if a guy is on 25 hours and then strikes for a day, he would get 16 hours pay for the week.....................exactly how "united" would your guys be given the same conditions.

[stokes11eg]

When you become a leader as both Billy and Dave have become , you have to deal with the facts in front of you. You dont have the luxury to ingnore certain things which is happening to the business.

For example when the business says it is bringing in ILSMs , its bringing in CSS machines and therefore it is going to have to change its workplan to maximise the work performed by the machines its bought then what is the union going to say. No you cannot invest in this machines ? Once you accept that prinicple that the company due to the pressures from Hooper and likes were going to be automated then there are just two models in Europe the part time model ie the Dutch model where all the sequencing is done from the morniing meaning no early starts and most staff are part time , or the one which the CWU negotiated and this was work done in two waves with an agreement which protected a national 75 /25 full and part time ratio , that starts times should be no later than 0700. Of course the union could not force Royal Mail to turn the machines off on saturday so of course this does mean that later finishes on saturday would become the norm. Now its easy to criticise the union about this but tell me another union which has forced a company to stop introducing automation ? It just does not happen.

Secondly if the indoor hourage is reducing due to the fact that your second batch is coming in later than of course to mantian a full time job you may have to look at a later start. However that longer span must mean that your fratigue and your delivery methods must be right. Now equally the union who has been campaigning against cars on delivery for years and we all know how many people drove them on delivery, how could they then say we want to stop Royal Mail investing in CDVs and stopping indivduals using their cars. Now we all know park and loop is not popular and in the 150 plus units it has been introduced it has been a mixed bag ranging from disasters to working reasonsbly well. So what did people want the union to argue against investing in CDVs and delivery methods and saying we want to stay the same ?

Now I totally accept as a leadership CWU HQs will be criticised and that has always happened , and some of that is justfiable and some of it natural. But equally as a rep and someone who visits lots of offices I know the agreement gives enough arguements for offices to argue against unreasonable workloads , to ensure the 1 in 4 is in and to protect the membership from managements agenda of 100 BSI etc. You can use the framework , you can refuse to agree , it is the local reps and memberships right to vote on the office revison , you can say no to the area rep and you can say no to the divisional reps. All be it from a London`s point of view no area rep or divisional rep would do that in any case.

So I do believe in collective responsibility and whilst CWU HQs can be blame for a lot of things , some people have also got to look at themselves in the mirror as well. Oh and some have to look at the state of the industry and think that Royal Mail is fast becoming a basket case , and cannot afford any pension payback past March next year , and cannot afford to pay back the loan to the Government for buying the machines and if the European Union does not give state aid then the industry really is in the most serious trouble ever and if the European Union decides we need resuce aid then this protentially means the end of our pensions and the break up of the company as Europe will decide.

So I do think sometime being need to look serious at the challenges which the industry is facing and then view them against what the union has agreed. Yes the agreement has changed working pratices and yes no one likes change but what would you have suggusted the union did given the fact that Royal Mail were deploying new machines , CDVs etc ? Would be intrested to have some constructive suggustions. This site has far to many moaners and groaners without enough suggusting an alternative.

Sorry--but when B&DRreceive a very high salary--they simply do not want to loose it, and will not go to war with R/M--if only they would put up a good fight(win or lose) on our behalf, they may get more respect!