DOG ATTACKS

[DGP1]

managers job to manage and my job to put letters through the letterbox.

No your job involves passing on the information from the front line for your Managers to manage. In fact your job is to perform any task, within reason, for which you've had adequate training. Since highlighting low letterboxes, slippery driveways, loose paving, sticking gates, blocked access and the whereabouts of dogs does not require specific training, you could be conduct coded for failing to undertake that request.

Really, TBH that is going to really cheer my DOM up, I assume you have some paperwork to back that up because that will be a daily list, probably on some sort of PDA (or waterproof address list) or is this one of those no training, no time, no resources but if it goes wrong then you're in trouble.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

WRAP IS A LEGAL REQUIREMENT

Really? Are you sure? If so could you please state under which act of law specifically states that so I can look it up?

Personally don't think you will be able to but good luck anyway

As to some other posts on here, everybody is responsible for their own health and safety not just the managers so if you get bitten and there was a warning on the walk log the yes you could be partly held responsible for the accident by royal mail

[Himaggen]

I assume you have some paperwork to back that up because that will be a daily list, probably on some sort of PDA (or waterproof address list) or is this one of those no training, no time, no resources but if it goes wrong then you're in trouble.

Now you are being ridiculous, there is unlikely to be such a document, and neither should there be a need for one.

What is it which limits the tasks you perform to only putting letters into letter boxes? certainly not your contract.

Why then do you believe that you can refuse any reasonable request, from those employed to allocate you work, for which you do not require training and for which you are being paid? Ensuring the Health and Safety of yourself and your colleagues requires that hazards are identified, it is unreasonable for you to expect your Manager to identify them in your work area just the same as it is for you to identify them in theirs. Remember that under the Health and Safety at Work Act, Employees have a responsibility to ensure that their actions, or lack of them, do not jeopardise the safety of others. That is all that's being asked for here, not a full risk assessment for the duty.

[clashcityrocker]

Himaggen wrote:
it is unreasonable for you to expect your Manager to identify them in your work area just the same as it is for you to identify them in theirs.

Hot coffee.

[Himaggen]

WRAP IS A LEGAL REQUIREMENT

Really? Are you sure? If so could you please state under which act of law specifically states that so I can look it up?

Personally don't think you will be able to but good luck anyway

Each employer has the general duty "to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the health, safety and welfare at work of all his employees". The H&S at Work Act 1974 requires that if you employ five or more people you must have a written health and safety policy. WRAP is the system by which Royal Mail has chosen to document this legal obligation.

[OTS]

Well after being bitten this week i'll put my 2pence in. Pulls up at a house i've not been to before ( i deliver track/over sized in an SPDO area not on my delivery ) Walks up the drive , no signs of dog or any warning signs. Knocks on door and hears a dog barking so i back away from the door. Owner opens the door and a jack russel type dog belts out the living room and lauches itself off the door step towards and area i really didn't want biting !!!!! I twisted round f**king my left knee up and the dog then bit my right leg. The owner then grabs dog and packet and shuts the door in my face ! 2 1/2 hours down the hospital , 4 X rays on knee , 2 lots of antibiotics for dog bite and Tramadol for knee pain , back to soft tissue unit on Monday for a CT on knee . Filled in ERICA and manager popped out to see them. Filling out a CWU claim form 1st thing Monday morning. No dog warning card in fitting after checking at SPDO as this dog has not bitten anyone before , no way of getting out the way of the mutt and you couldn't knock at a door then leg it behind the wall when ever you hear a dog bark. Its not the postie that needs training or RM its the dog owners
Although i did manage to boot a poodle a good 6ft last week , don't think that'll bother me again

Hi. Sorry to hear about your attack. Look at this from the owners point.
Question: Did he know his dog was aggressive? Answer, to right he did.
Question: What precautions did he take to stop you or anyone else being bitten? Answer: None.
You say that after checking the SPDO the dog hadn’t bitten anyone before. That may be the case. I bet you a tenner the owner is on either the local Police or Local Authorities systems. Unfortunately as I said earlier in this post no one collates the information and certainly doesn’t share it with Royal Mail. You may or may not know that because the dog bit you on its owner’s property (Private) there’s no offence in respect of the Dangerous Dogs Act. There is an offence under the Dogs Act 1871. You or Royal Mail could if you wanted make a civil application to your local magistrates Court under the Dogs Act 1871. If found guilty the owner would be fined and the court would probably make the dog the subject of a control order. This means the dog would have to be muzzled and on a lead when in a public place. This won’t help in this particular instance as the dog was son its own property. But I bet you 20 squid next time you come down the path that dog will be secured somewhere. Oh and just in case you don’t know. You can claim off his house insurance if he’s got any. Go see and decent brief for this.
Thanks

[OTS]

OTS, I get the impression that your particular service , the one you are trying to sell to us, is not what we want. I know full well how to tell at a glance what type of animal I'm facing and how they react to my particular actions. I'm aware that your experience of victims tells you different but that doesn't really matter.

I still think that your services are better employed teaching the owners, and here's why:

We are told to not enter where we see a dog, endorse the mail accordingly, return it to the office, inform a Manager and ensure that the WRAP system and walk log is updated accordingly. At that point the customer is informed that they will not receive mail if their dog is out and it's their problem to control.

If we do not see a dog until after we have entered the property then that is usually down to our own negligence or that of the dog owner.

As a reminder of all known dogs on our duties, we carry a hazard card or mark the first mail item as an alert to its existence. We should make a noise, rattle the gate, whistle etc. to ensure that 'Tyson' isn't out of sight before entering. If after that we get our fingers bitten by not using the dog peg with which we were provided, then it's primarily our fault because we failed to exercise the control we had over that situation. If the dog is released somehow by the owners then it is their fault, because they have been pre-warned by letter when added to the WRAP system and have failed to exercise proper control.

That really only leaves us with unexpected situations and unknown dogs. Thankfully these are few and far between and as a result not something we should be wasting resources training for.

As you can see from the above the most important control we have over dog attacks is in our own hands and anything which occurs outside of that is generally where the training is needed, i.e. the owners.

I disagrees. Ive posted this repsponse to one of your colleages about his attack

Hi. Sorry to hear about your attack. Look at this from the owners point.
Question: Did he know his dog was aggressive? Answer, to right he did.
Question: What precautions did he take to stop you or anyone else being bitten? Answer: None.
You say that after checking the SPDO the dog hadn’t bitten anyone before. That may be the case. I bet you a tenner the owner is on either the local Police or Local Authorities systems. Unfortunately as I said earlier in this post no one collates the information and certainly doesn’t share it with Royal Mail. You may or may not know that because the dog bit you on its owner’s property (Private) there’s no offence in respect of the Dangerous Dogs Act. There is an offence under the Dogs Act 1871. You or Royal Mail could if you wanted make a civil application to your local magistrates Court under the Dogs Act 1871. If found guilty the owner would be fined and the court would probably make the dog the subject of a control order. This means the dog would have to be muzzled and on a lead when in a public place. This won’t help in this particular instance as the dog was son its own property. But I bet you 20 squid next time you come down the path that dog will be secured somewhere. Oh and just in case you don’t know. You can claim off his house insurance if he’s got any. Go see and decent brief for this.
Thanks

[Himaggen]

You say that after checking the SPDO the dog hadn’t bitten anyone before. That may be the case. I bet you a tenner the owner is on either the local Police or Local Authorities systems. Unfortunately as I said earlier in this post no one collates the information and certainly doesn’t share it with Royal Mail. You may or may not know that because the dog bit you on its owner’s property (Private) there’s no offence in respect of the Dangerous Dogs Act. There is an offence under the Dogs Act 1871. You or Royal Mail could if you wanted make a civil application to your local magistrates Court under the Dogs Act 1871. If found guilty the owner would be fined and the court would probably make the dog the subject of a control order. This means the dog would have to be muzzled and on a lead when in a public place. This won’t help in this particular instance as the dog was son its own property. But I bet you 20 squid next time you come down the path that dog will be secured somewhere. Oh and just in case you don’t know. You can claim off his house insurance if he’s got any. Go see and decent brief for this.
Thanks

You are telling us stuff we don't really need to know, even though we already do.

As a result of this incident the ERICA and WRAP systems and walk log should have been updated and a new hazard card written out. Also the Local Dog Warden or Police should have been informed and a Royal Mail letter winging its way out to the owners too. The CWU also have a team of solicitors who are waiting to jump on this for an appropriate resolution and a basic compensation scheme will have been flagged for issue too.

None of that we need training for, the training is needed with the negligent owner at the doorstep.

<Edit />
I cannot understand how you can disagree, read what i wrote, based on the detail provided, this colleague was attacked not through their own fault but by the negligence of the owner. You cannot train us for that, we already have controls in place so far as is reasonably practicable, the rest is unfortunately unlucky or owner negligence. The latter situation could be improved by quickly agreeing the changes in our Law at least on a par with those of Scotland and Northern Ireland.

[OTS]

Hi. I have worked with dogs most of my adult life having been a dog handler in the Army, a Police Officer and now a Dog Warden for the last 5 years. In my current role I routinely carry out investigations into dog attacks on postal staff. I have done research into this subject and am amazed that around 5000 postal staff are seriously attacked by dogs each year.

My view is that the majority of those attacks could have been prevented as it was known the dogs had previously been aggressive to staff.
Whilst I can appreciate the Royal Mail is a large organisation, they do appear to lack the professional knowledge in properly dealing with attacks on their staff. I am in the process of starting up my consultancy service to specifically give advice to organisations such as the Royal Mail and would relish the opportunity to give talks to staff on how to stay safe around dogs.

I have just come across the site and would like any views or advice on the best way to proceed with my venture.

Thanks
[/quote

Afraid OTS that you are being rather poetic with your research statement that around 5000 postal staff are seriously attacked by dogs each year.

It would be more correct to say that around 5000 to 6000 Postal Workers and 400 Telecom Workers are attacked by Dogs every year in the UK whilst delivering the Mail. 70% of which occur on private land or premises. Many members require hospital treatment and many receive serious injuries. Two Postmen were nearly killed in savage attacks in Sheffield 2007 and Cambridge 2008. Many other workers visiting homes and commercial premises are injured by dogs. Children and Adults are being killed and injured by ferocious dogs with irresponsible owners.

I would however like to ask in which part of the UK you are currently a dog warden in? As in Scotland we have redress through the Control of Dogs (Scotland) Act 2010.

St helens in Merseyside. Coctrol orders no adpopted yet buy most UK Counclils. Reasons are complicated

[brothermagrew]

WRAP IS A LEGAL REQUIREMENT

Really? Are you sure? If so could you please state under which act of law specifically states that so I can look it up?

Personally don't think you will be able to but good luck anyway

Each employer has the general duty "to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the health, safety and welfare at work of all his employees". The H&S at Work Act 1974 requires that if you employ five or more people you must have a written health and safety policy. WRAP is the system by which Royal Mail has chosen to document this legal obligation.

It's simples in Royal Mail a high proportion of accidents take place outside the majority of them being whilst out on delivery. The three main top risks being slips and trips, animal attacks (mainly from dogs) and overweight pouches (and issues relating to lifting and handling). Royal Mail as a business have listened to their employees feedback namely highlighting that the previous paper based method of logging hazards was felt to be too time consuming and inconsistent.

Royal Mail has introduced the new online method of logging significant hazards which aptly is called (WRAP) or Walk Risk Assessment Platform. WRAP is designed to support RM employees by logging hazards in a standard way, and allows postmen and women to print off a hazard card to take out on delivery to ensure safe delivery to customers. In order to help postmen and women take note of, and report significant hazards to their manager, RM have introduced a new Hazard Card Holder to be taken out on delivery. In addition Royal Mail have combined the Workplace Questionnaires (WPQ) 1 and 2.

What's new, what do we need to do, and how does it work?
Complete the blank Workplace Questionnaire (WPQ) form provided by your line manager for your walk. Hand the form to your line manager; input this detail into the WRAP system together to agree actions (this will take a few minutes at the most). Your manager will print out a new Walk Log to go into the folder attached to your sorting frame. Your manager will also print off a mini Hazard Card (and map where required), to put in your new card holder and take out on your walk. All postmen and women should now carry the new cards and highlight any hazards they see on their walk to their manager, so that it can be shared with colleagues. Equally any old hazards which no longer apply should be flagged up so that they can be deleted from the system. It makes sense to work with your manager and colleagues in helping to identify and share information on hazards.

For those of you who receive regular work time listening and learning meetings/sessions and even those who don't i would suggest that representations are made to management as to why you have not received the briefings on know your weights, Walk Risk Assessment (WRA) - what you need to know, Dog Attacks and What's a significant hazard.

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 28&t=34006" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[DGP1]

I don't think people understand, 600 APs plus all the roads and footpaths should all be assessed, now I have the ability to sit down and write a full risk assessment but I don't have any time allotted to me to actually do it, the quote from my DOM was 'I'll pay you OT to do it' even knowing that I don't do OT. So instead of the managers sitting on their arses, surfing the net and drinking coffee they should get out and actually do these assessments and not expect us to do them. I keep myself safe but how am I supposed to remember 20 or 30 things per day unless I write them down at the time, to update the walk log (H&S PDAs is what we really need).