Consultation

[dvbuk55]

No you are right dingo, we'll leave going in back in time to those who crow about the achievements in the last 20 years.

What we would like to see is a revisit of the last agreement. A little more information on the cards about what the aims of the union are as opposed to the aims of the membership.

Those items I would like to see sorted are Colleague Share, Pensions, realistic workloads, a clear cut plan by the union to deal with privatisation, a publication of the results of the existing revisions, shared information via the communications department to the members on the 75/25 split.

I am sure there are many more issues and can I say that the consultation shouldn't be restricted to what the union want to discuss but what the members want discussed.

Now the consultation will be taking place is a little imprecise, is there a more immediate time scale available?

Oh how are the discussions going on the rest of us?

[POSTMAN]

The conusltation is going to be about revisons and what is exactly happening in your offices as either as a result of a BAU revison , delivery methods revison or a walk sequencing revision.

To be fair Dingo,wouldn't this info be already available by those who have had the above,a quick branch meeting with the offices affected and we're off.
Even a full branch meeting so those who are in the early part of revisions can have their say.

[Big Daz]

Cracks me up. Took 4 votes a total eradication of major change to get a revision voted for - what was left for revision? BT 2010 was all about major change.
Is it any wonder that RM lose patience and institute EA.......you just cannot keep saying no to change.

Is Big Dazs manager Doug McClure? cos it seems like its The Land That Time Forgot hes working in,the boss dosnt believe the
mail from the mail centre is correct and an office vote and a flash of your union card
has Royal Mail backing off like dracula in the sunlight!

nice work if you can get it though

Ho Ho Ho

The number of yorks and boxes coming through the door each day is counted by the managers and its more than what MC says they are sending, its not about how much mail is in each box or york of packets. Belief has no relevance the facts are facts. THe DSM appears uninterested as even with the correct figures IWT still shows a saving is available and still shows we are not at 1005 BSI so summer savings sick leave at at as little cost as possible is still very much part of the weekly agenda at WRM.

As fore major change well we were only a self starter so senior mangement not overley worried about what happens as I belive they intend to pounce for ther kill with delivery methods and sequenced mail. As a self starter MC takes the form of attendance patterns which turned out to the biggets minefield ever. In th eend attendance patterns were dropped re poltting of delivery routes was dropped and we carried on with absobing two delivery duties a day by just taking from the frame which part was assigned to our duty and dropped the plan to remove one rural duty. That only just got a yes vote and was negotiated by senior reps and senior mangement.

[Martin Walsh]

Postman no I dont think this information is there. Some reps and more managers will say everything is fine with the revisons and then CWU HQs will have letters from members saying something different.

What the conusltation is about is getting the members to tell what is happening in their offices.

What a consultation cannot be around is trying to rewind time. Royal Mail have walk seqeuncing machines they are not going to switch them off so there will be pressures on full time jobs , start times , longer Saturdays and later finishes. Neither will Royal Mail go back to Door to Door being capped , the unit payment and some offices doing them and some not. Yes some members will not like that but that is the reality.

[fishtank]

I don't think anyone seriously expects to wind back the clock.
I don't think anyone seriously thinks the BTA will go away....unless RM wants to replace it with something worse.
I do think that members have the right to have their legitimate concerns heard....and action taken to resolve those concerns.
I think the Branch and Divisional structure is failing badly in some areas and the need to resolve that is urgent...perhaps even more urgent than the need to resolve the issues with the BTA.
No matter what agreements are reached and how good they may appear on paper,if they are poorly implemented and supervised at all levels within both organisations the result will be carnage.

[Martin Walsh]

Fishtank I dont think it is correct that the Branch structure and Divisional Structure does work well where the branch is organised and where the divisional committee enusres unity and policy.

i agree that there is branch`s which are not organised and some divisions which are not working.

But I am not sure what you could replace the branch and divisional structure with ? Believe me when the old branch structure was workplace based we were poorly organised and the union never had policies which areas carried forward.

I do believe that Headquarters should ensure Branch`s are organised in the right way after all each Branch gets a rebate from CWU HQs to ensure this is the case.

[dvbuk55]

Unity? That is definitely NOT what is happening. RM have done a wonderful job of dividing the members of the CWU, quite ably helped along by the CWU itself. Local this, local that, has done nothing whatsoever to unify the membership and I firmly believe that is a distinct policy of both parties. Perhaps this latest debacle with the ballot and the so called consultation and negotiations has shown exactly how unified the CWU is.

[fishtank]

At the moment there is a reluctance on the part of some Area Reps,Btanches and Divisional Reps to report failure or even difficulties...driven by peer pressure and fear and unfortunately perpetuated by the "We are strong,you are weak" divisive mentality amongst the union.
This has led to attempts to play down,cover up and in some cases use questionable strong arm tactics to at least give the illusion that all is well.
It's short-sighted,doomed to failure and damaging the union day by day.
Accountability is what's needed and a stronger line from HQ.
Admitting failure is not weak....hiding it is.

[Martin Walsh]

Agreed thats why I pushed for the consultation to the members , lets hear from them.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

daz, its like FT says.

the reps are part of the problem in some DOs.

they are relaying info up the line that is untrue regarding failing revisions.

we didnt get any say whatsoever on any part of the new duties, and when the DOM was asked his reply was the rep had signed it off.

i fully appreciate this is not you daz but it does go on.

Oh dear that is not good, the exact opposite at my D.O, I have a simple policy if the mbrs vote no I dont sign. Took four votes and a total eradication of major change to get a revison voted for.

Cracks me up. Took 4 votes a total eradication of major change to get a revision voted for - what was left for revision? BT 2010 was all about major change.
Is it any wonder that RM lose patience and institute EA.......you just cannot keep saying no to change.

But that is not the reps fault. He is there to represent the members views and to communicate those views either to the CWU or to Royal Mail. I agree that perhaps its lacking a little foresight if Dazs members rejected all the proposals but you should not blame Daz for that, in fact sounds like he did his level best and came out with a good result for his members.

In essence as he represnts his members and they keep saying NO then he has no choice but to tell RM that. Its their move next and as long as his members are aware that EA is a possible outcome why should Reps feel other than vindicated and appluaded for doing as much as they can.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

The conusltation is going to be about revisons and what is exactly happening in your offices as either as a result of a BAU revison , delivery methods revison or a walk sequencing revision..

Forgive me if you think I am being petty but a consultation is about getting people opinions on matters of import to them. A consulation about revisions and whats happening in the office is basically a members report not a consultation.

A proper consultation of course should include members views on how the revisions went in, what part the members played and what help did they get from the Union heirarchy, but it should not be limited to just that. It needs to consult on itself as well, asking members where the Union is, in their opinion, failing them, where more of the resources need to be placed, what help members think the union should provide to them and their reps, what problems do members see in the current set-up. Of couse concentrating on just the bad point helps no-one so they also need to be given the opportunity to voice their opinions on where they think the Union is "strong", how it helps them as indivduals and what are the positive aspects of being a member of the CWU.

If as you post suggests the consultation is going to focus on just the revisions and the last agreement then in my humble opinion that is far too narrow a subject and will not help the CWU to adapt to members wishes or aspirations in the future.

[POSTMAN]

daz, its like FT says.

the reps are part of the problem in some DOs.

they are relaying info up the line that is untrue regarding failing revisions.

we didnt get any say whatsoever on any part of the new duties, and when the DOM was asked his reply was the rep had signed it off.

i fully appreciate this is not you daz but it does go on.

Oh dear that is not good, the exact opposite at my D.O, I have a simple policy if the mbrs vote no I dont sign. Took four votes and a total eradication of major change to get a revison voted for.

Cracks me up. Took 4 votes a total eradication of major change to get a revision voted for - what was left for revision? BT 2010 was all about major change.
Is it any wonder that RM lose patience and institute EA.......you just cannot keep saying no to change.

But that is not the reps fault. He is there to represent the members views and to communicate those views either to the CWU or to Royal Mail. I agree that perhaps its lacking a little foresight if Dazs members rejected all the proposals but you should not blame Daz for that, in fact sounds like he did his level best and came out with a good result for his members.

In essence as he represnts his members and they keep saying NO then he has no choice but to tell RM that. Its their move next and as long as his members are aware that EA is a possible outcome why should Reps feel other than vindicated and appluaded for doing as much as they can.

I feel for Daz,his DO is a nightmare,they really do not want to do anything.

[POSTMAN]

I think we are really in the s**t if reps are giving out bad feed back and papering over the cracks.
Bad reps,bad members bad branches bad Divs,it aint looking good for the future.

Royal Mail must be pissing themselves laughing.

[Lincox]

Consultation and Communications with all CWU Members

The Postal Executive has also agreed to embark on our biggest ever consultation exercise with all CWU members. This will utilise the full range of communication tools, be supported by our Communications Department alongside the engagement of an external communications company.

This will provide a genuine opportunity for two-way communications that will directly engage CWU members and gain support for our policy. We recognise there is work to do and we are determined to get underneath some of the problems CWU members are experiencing at local level due to unreasonable pressure from managers.

This was 6 weeks ago.....
Anybody been consulted yet?
Or just insulted....

Dingo, where does it say here that the consultation is limited to the BTA and it,s implementation.

[fishtank]

I think we are really in the s**t if reps are giving out bad feed back and papering over the cracks.
Bad reps,bad members bad branches bad Divs,it aint looking good for the future.

Royal Mail must be pissing themselves laughing.

It's not terminal,not yet but it's pretty close to the tipping point.
It can be fixed but those with the power have to want to fix it and the members have to see that.
Once the members see more engagement from the top they will also be encouraged to engage and hopefully the whole cycle of apathy can be turned on it's head.
It needs some big decisions and some guys at Branch level will throw their toys out but tough s**t.